I figured I'll make up for the lack of updates for the last couple of weeks so here's another post. :)
It looks like many readers are interested in the latest court session, so here is the translation of the transcript. I'll continue with "Forever" after this.
This is the summarized transcript of the trial posted on the TVXQ fan site 2Paradise by its member that attended the trial session. The court session lasted for about 2 hours so this summarized version was posted first while she is working on the full version with more details.
Here's the link to the original transcript from the biggest TVXQ fan site 2Paradise:
http://www.2paradise.us/bo/bbs/board.php?bo_table=paradise&wr_id=42126#c_42292
When the full version becomes available, I may translate it. If the contents of the full transcript are not too different than this summary, then I’ll probably translate it later when I go over all the trial sessions. I've added some explanation to clarify some parts of the translation, and they are enclosed in parenthesis in blue text.
Here’s the translation.
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1> The parts enclosed in parenthesis are words or information directly referenced by the lawyer. I tried to avoid using them as much as possible, but used them where it’s necessary. Those are info previously mentioned by the lawyers but omitted in this transcript, or info not included while transcribing conversation into writing.
2> The parts written in light gray are my personal opinion.
-------------------------------- --------------------------------
This session is a parallel session handling two lawsuits, and today, SM is assigned as the plaintiff.
The law firm JipyungJiSung and Yulchon (accounting) are defending SM, and CJS are defended by the law firm Sejong.
Started the session and given chances to state new opinions regarding last session.
3: We request to get an interlocutory judgment quickly, separate from the injunction judgment, so the 3 can work freely. SM’s influence in the entertainment industry is strong, and because of direct and indirect restrictions, the 3’s domestic entertainment activities and appearances in broadcasting are impossible. The 3’s domestic activities are halted because many entertainment producers actually think the contract is valid because of the lack of judgment.
SM: First, where are the evidences that SM interfered directly or indirectly with JYJ’s activities? An interlocutory judgment is not necessary. These two subjects are like two sides of the coin, and aside from determining the validity/invalidity of the contract; the damage suits are closely related to them. It is not necessary to provide separate evidences for the two cases, and the verdict must be given all at once after examining the whole situation as the trials are proceeding as a parallel case.
Today’s trial mostly consisted of the witness Yoon Sunghee’s Q&A session.
Yoon Sung Hee is the head manager of the accounting support team of S.M. Entertainment (hereinafter SM), and she handled accounting of the entertainers under SM.
She was assigned to TVXQ since 2008(?) (She entered SM around 2008 according to my memory)
[SM's Examination of the witness]
Q) What is the reason the revenue is settled every 6 months?
- Entertainers generate income inconsistently depending on the level of activities; therefore, monthly accounting settlement is meaningless.
Q) Are there cases where accounting is settled monthly?
- Some Actors/Actresses and entertainers that does not work overseas sometimes settle accounts at the end of every month. Especially if (the entertainer) pays for all the operating costs, you only need to distribute the profit with the company, so in that case accounting is done monthly.
Q) Any complaints from the entertainers about 6-month term settlement?
- No. The 3 didn’t have any (complaints).
- The meetings for the account settlement held periodically were attended by the entertainers, parents, for minor entertainers surely the parents, finance director of SM, accounting officer Yoon Sung Hee etc, and the Contract terms, comparing revenue and expenses, and advances were gone over on the spot. Also, the entertainer’s signature is obtained after the verification process.
- SM is a company listed on Kosdaq and audited regularly by outside agency, which includes account settlement of the entertainers.
Q) There is a claim that 100% of TVXQ’s operating costs are paid by the members, is it true?
-No, that never happened. All the operating expenses are either shared half & half between the entertainers and the company or the company pays 100%.
Q) When do they get an advance?
- They get an advance for personal reasons not related to the entertainment activities.
Q) In case of the 3?
- Tax, Insurance, Education, Housing purchase etc.
- The 3 got the advance frequently.
Q) The amount of the 3’s advances in 2009 – Park Yuchun: 490 million/ Kim Junsu: 470 Million/ Kim Jaejoong: 220 million – totals about 1.2 billion, does the company gives advance every time it was requested?
- The rule is not set that way, but most requests are granted to keep a good relationship with the celebrities.
Q) When large amounts like 100 – 200 millions are requested, how do you finance the funds? Are those always prepared in advance?
- No they're not, so sometimes it is difficult.
Q) Doesn’t this big advance amount become issues during audits?
- Sometimes it does become a problem. Advance is a type of loan, and interest needs to be collected. For regular employees, they pay interest for the advance they received, but for the singers, even though the amount is comparably much larger, we pay them as advanced payment, so we don’t collect interests, and it does get noticed during every audit.
Q) Did the 3 get an advance again in 2010? If they did, what was the purpose?
- Yes. It was paid for the health insurance, citation for the personal vehicle and etc., so the company took care of it at the time.
[Cross-examination from the 3’s side]
Q) During the accounting settlement meeting, were the entertainers ever attended the meeting with an expert or an accountant?
- No. I don’t think it’s necessary because we get audited from outside agency separately.
Q) SM employees prepare all the settlement documents, and if the entertainer requests to review all the details, are they allowed to see them?
- Yes they are.
Q) According to the accounting data, during the activities for the 4th album Mirotic, most of broadcasting appearances and small concerts were treated as promotional fees and the members were not paid?
- Promotional fees are not included in the settlement. As for the events, the events that have high appearance fees are included in the settlement.
-
Q) Our side doesn’t even know the amount of the member’s broadcasting appearance fees. Is there a reason for not disclosing the data despite the request for disclosure?
- We will disclose it.
Q) According to the 3, events like fan autograph sessions have appearance fees of 5 million?
- Fan autograph sessions do not have appearance fees; therefore, it is not considered for the settlement.
Q) Preparation costs for TV appearances, for example, dance practice costs, how are they calculated?
- Practice costs for promotional appearance where there are no appearance fees are paid by SM, but the costs for the events or broadcasts with appearance fees are shared between SM and the members.
Q) Albums released in Japan that are imported to Korea, don’t they apply as album sales income?
- Licensed Japanese albums are applied as royalty.
Q) Those are albums like any other albums, so 10% of the album sales need to be paid, does it not?
- Domestic albums are direct production of SM, but albums released in Japan are not sold directly by SM. The album sales in Japan are paid as royalties according to the contract.
Q) The 4th album Mirotic sold about 460,000 and SM accounting team forecasted the sales to be 480,000 and paid them accordingly. But actually, it sold about 500,000 in total. For what reason was it forecasted as 480,000? Could it be because of the clause that additional payment of 50 million KRW once the sale exceeds 500,000? In other words, is it done to avoid paying 50 million KRW?
- The accounting is settled after the album was sold for 2-3 months and adding 20,000 sales for future sales. Therefore, 480,000 sales is calculated by adding estimated 10,000 plus some thousands randomly just for the convenience of calculation. If more than the estimated numbers are sold at later times, additional amount is paid. We handle other entertainers are like this too.
Also, payment of 50 million KRW cannot be made because the 3 did not participate in the production of the subsequent album.
Q) Production cost of albums is paid 100% by SM, what are those?
- Album covers, recording, song royalties, choreography, music video production etc.
Q) But according to the accounting, music video production, new songs choreography, showcase costs are listed as members’ cost, why is that?
- Costs submitted from the production department are applied as production cost, and the costs submitted from the activity management department are applied as cost of activities.
Management department probably determined music videos are cost of activities for the broadcasting and submitted accordingly, so we settled accounting based on those.
Q) In addition to the food expenses, staffs and bodyguards working together, housing maintenance expenses, and even expenses to hire maids are included as the members’ expenses, aren’t they supposed to be paid 100% by the company?
- According to the contract, those costs are shared as the cost of operation.
Q) 70% of the revenue earned in Japan minus taxes are paid to the members, but the income tax paid in Japan are returned after getting deduction in Korea, then those deductions should be considered as income, and isn’t 70% of that need to be paid to the members?
- When the company generates profit, it needs to pay the income tax again besides the reduction. In case of the revenue, the tax needs to be deducted in Korea just like in Japan, but we’re not paying in Korea because it was already paid in Japan, so that part cannot be considered as profit.
Q) The witness said that it’s natural for the members to get paid small amount because of the advance they took out, but when you look at the details of the advance Park Yuchun took out in 2008 for the amount of 220million, most of them are tax, health insurance and vehicle tax, isn’t it just advanced payment of the taxes that the individual must pay?
# At this point the judge said, “Do not ask for a judgment.”
3’s lawyer: “Oh, then I’ll retract this.”
(I don’t know what the lawyer is trying to prove… the company must pay for the individual 's tax?;;)
Q) From the information about the advance Yuchun took in 2008 besides the taxes, there was fund for security deposit of 200 million KRF for housing, isn’t it making the member pay for the lodging? ( In Korea, there’s a method of renting a place with a lump sum fund as a deposit without monthly payments. The landlord basically gets payment off the interest)
- No, that’s not for the lodging, but it was for funding Park Yuchon’s own private house.
[SM’s rebuttal]
Q) The three never joined the account settlement meetings with a legal expert or an accountant, did the company ever denied an accountant joining the meeting?
- No. The 3 never requested it.
Q) Did the company ever prevent it?
- No.
Q) In Album/Royalty clauses, the distribution rates for the album, original recording(?), and royalties are different. Previously, you said the album gets released in many different formats, so depending on the production and distribution, are different profit rates applied for the artists’ royalty and album sales?
- Yes
Q) According to the exclusive contract, when albums sales of more than 500,000 are achieved, is 50 million KRW paid when the next album is released?
- Yes
Q) Is there an album released where the 3 participated after the 4th album Mirotic?
- There is not.
Q) The condition for the payment was not met?
- Yes (This answer was erased from the record by the judge because he determined that it’s not the witness’ responsibility)
Q) When settling accounts with production/activity costs, it is done with what’s submitted from production department and management department, how does accounting team distinguish them?
A) Each department has separate expense forms. The colors of forms are different, so that’s how we identify them.
Q) Food, hiring overseas bodyguard, lodging management, and maid expenses are shared (between members and company) as cost of operation according to the exclusive contract, is it correct?
-Yes
Q) But even though it’s specified that way on paper, but in reality, the company paid for everything according to the final expense report generated during account settlement. Is that information correct?
- Yes.
Q) Does overseas royalty applies only in Japan?
- No. Japan, China, and Southeast Asia etc. it applies to all the revenues generated overseas.
Q) It was said the overseas account settlement gets delayed by the quarters or a half a year, does that mean that significant portion of the 2008 overseas activities profit are related to the activities done in 2006 and 2007?
- Yes
(End of questioning of the witness)
# Important points of today’s trial
- Judge said, “First Kim Jaejoong and others, TVXQ that side…(brief silence).. It’s kind of awkward to address them as TVXQ”
- 3 took out 1.2 billion advances just in 2009
- In addition, there are advances taken out in 2008 and 2010 (vehicle citation etc.)
- During the accounting settlement meetings, the entertainer can ask for detailed documents, and allowed to bring legal experts or accountants, but the 3 never requested it.
- The profit for the year 2009 and after is not claimed yet
- 3’s lawyer who specialize in entertainment management jyj->jyp continue to “chunsangjeehee” -> “chunsangjeehae”
(Note: During the previous trial session, JYJ's lawyer addressed JYJ as JYP, and during this one, they got the name of the Grace wrong)
# For additional witness, SM requested TVXQ’s former manager and Nam Soyoung, the director of SM Japan
- Director Nam Soyoung is accepted as a witness. She’ll probably take a stand as a witness on the next trial. TVXQ’s former manager will be requested in writing.
The 3’s side doesn’t seem to have requested (any witness) yet.
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Source: http://2paradise.us
Translated by: Precious @ http://truetvxq.blogspot.com
Do not modify the content when using this post. Please note proper credits.
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[End of Translation]
WOW!!!This transalation is totaly different from what i have read from another site..It's very clear with statement from lawyer and witness..truthfully i..arghh!!!i don't know what to say anymore..
ReplyDeletebut thank you precious..look forward for your next post..
OMGOMGOMG! 2 updates in one day! NICEEE!!!!
ReplyDelete@ Precious: Thank you so much! lol.
Boy are you fast when it comes to translations :p
I also look forward to your next post and keep up with the work...lol.
@Precious: thank u so much. U have to know how depressed i am when reading summary from other side. Because 2 hours trial is reflected to few colorful lines and emoticons... -____-
ReplyDeleteI kinda wondered why the 3 still get 2010 advance? Was it bcoz they still produce Japanese best album during tht time? Or they technically still SM employee, but aren't they in process of breaking free? ://
Anyway, thanks alot precious. ^^
Thank you for the translation. This text certainly reads more like a transcript and not like a weird sort of screenplay.
ReplyDeleteMight you know what firm does SM's external audit?
Gonna reread now, accounting is complicated lol.
Thanks for this translation Precious. This post is a little hard to understand as I don't have accounting knowledge but as a public listed company SME should know what they're doing with book keeping.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm a little confused- it could be a typo error but in the beginning of this post, JYJ lawyer mentioned that the additional payment if album sales exceed 500,000 copies is 500million won but later, lawyers from both side said it's only 500,000krw. That's like less than USD500.
(JYJ lawyers)Could it be because of the clause that additional payment of 500million KRW once the sale exceeds 500,000? In other words, is it done to avoid paying 500,000 KRW?
and
(SME lawyers) Q) According to the exclusive contract, when albums sales of more than 500,000 are achieved, is 500,000 KRW paid when the next album is released?
@ shimjang
ReplyDeleteOops, that was my mistake. It was supposed to be 50 million KRW. Thanks for noticing it. Can you be my editor? :) I just corrected it.
I heard that on some of other summaries, they mentioned about Yunchun's scooter installation fee. How he got an advance to install his scooter. How pathetic.
ReplyDeleteI was a silent reader until now, but I guess I just had to make a comment on this one! This whole thing makes me laugh. I feel like the three boys are blinded by money.
What about Yunchun's Nameless Song? Doesn't he talk about how he had no money, so he had to borrow some, but then he ended up using all for traveling? Then he goes on and talks about the tax, etc. I wonder what he's thinking about now. Is he stupid or something?
It just makes me so mad that someone like him was one of my favorite members from DBSK. I didn't know he was this ignorant. The fact that he wrote a song about it-despite the fact that it's based on wrong information- makes him look ignorant.
Thank you for your translation. I
guess I'll go back to the "silent mode" now.
@ Jessica
ReplyDeleteThe firm in charge of auditing SM is "Samjung KMPG", Korean member firm of the KMPG International.
Here's the website.
http://www.kpmg.com/KR/ko/Pages/default.aspx
@ ayeopan
ReplyDeleteI don't know exactly how they got advance in 2010 when they were already in dispute with SM, but it looks like some of the personal expenses the 3 incurred were covered by SM and applied as advances. Once I read a detailed transcript, I'll have a better idea.
@ Precious
ReplyDeleteNo problem! ^^ I'm rather sensitive to numbers because a missing or additional zero makes a lot of difference.
Anyway, this means each member will receive 50mil won, right? Does this mean HoMin is eligible to receive this amount because they have released KYHD?
but when you look at the details of the advance Park Yuchun took out in 2008 for the amount of 220million, most of them are tax, health insurance and vehicle tax, isn’t it just advanced payment of the taxes that the individual must pay?
It looks like Yoochun cannot afford to pay or doesn't have enough to pay his tax that he has to request advance from the company.
Q) From the information about the advance Yuchun took in 2008 besides the taxes, there was fund for security deposit of 200 million KRF for housing, isn’t it making the member pay for the lodging?
- No, that’s not for the lodging, but it was for funding Park Yuchon’s own private house.
Actually, this shows how smart Yoochun is. If he had taken a housing loan from a bank, he has to pay high monthly interest. He knows that SME doesn't charge interest for advance money, so that's exactly what he did to pay for his house. I'm not sure what JYJ lawyers want to prove by bringing this up (or choose Yoochun as a subject of discussion) but logically this fact is favorable to SME.
Truthfully, this is the first time I heard that a company willing to do this for their employees especially large sum of money. There must be a high level of trust between both parties for these transactions to happen and be approved.
SME must pay for JYJ's health insurance and other fees that was still active, even though they're in the middle of a lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteA lawyer friend told me, SME must fulfill it's responsibility even though they're being stabbed in the back.
In the eyes of the contract, SME must honor it, since they're standing trial proving the court that the contract is STILL valid.
In the eyes of the common person it may not make sense, but SME honors contract with their artists really seriously.
Precious, no words needed to sugar coat this transcript, from the translation it self, we can see.
Keep posting, the truth will reveal itself eventually...
@ shimjang
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was excited after finishing translating it, and forgot to check the numbers. A 0 does make a huge difference. :)
The quotes in your comment are interesting because the lawyer says most of 220 mil advance are taxes and insurance, then he states 200 mil is for Yuchun's personal house. Well I guess he thinks 20mil is most of the advance. LOL
BTW, the house wasn't purchased, but it was rather a lease, but it doesn't matter.
thank you~
ReplyDeleteI've been waiting for this..
another site just posted some clueless translation with emoticon .. I feel like reading fanfic =="
thank you ^^
Precious,
ReplyDelete# Important points of today’s trial
- 3 took out 12 billion advances just in 2009
(( it should be 1.2 billion ))
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Q) Did the 3 get an advance again in 2010? If they did, what was the purpose?
- Yes. It was paid for the health insurance, citation for the personal vehicle and etc., so the company took care of it at the time.
---------------
Very interesting answer from the witness.
1) My understanding is advance payment ought to be requested by employee with valid reason for it. (it has nothing to do with benefit given by the company)
2) looks like JCS has used all possible reason to get advance from SME - "Health Insurance" ?
"Citation for personal vehicle - refer to compound from traffic violation right?" So how much is the compound for traffic violation until they need to get advance from SME to pay off??????
@ shimjang
ReplyDeleteActually, it's 50 million per group, so I'm sure HoMin will get paid for that, and it's probably going to be 50mil split in 2 instead of 5. :)
They get paid every 6 months according to the transcript, so I assume they'll get paid this June or July, including payment for the 5th album. :)
@ Noname
Yes, SM will fulfill their responsibility, but I'm not sure if health insurance cost is one of them. I don't know exactly how the Korean medical system work (it's run by the government and I heard it's really inexpensive), but from what I've read, because the entertainers are profit sharing employees not salaried, they need to pay for their own health insurance, and that's probably why the cost is considered as advance.
@ Karen
ReplyDeleteI think I answered part of your question on the reply to NoName above.
As for the cars, I can't tell exactly what happened from the transcript. There are people who's suspecting that the 3 were still using the vehicles issued by SM even in 2010 and had some sort of traffic violation, and SM had to pay for it. So even after the lawsuit, SM had to take care of some stuff for CJS. Also in 2010, SM was still hoping for CJS to come back, so it makes sense for SM to handle it.
Dang, I'm on a roll with numbers today. I'm gonna lose all the credibility...
gaaah blogspot just ate my comment grrr
ReplyDeleteanyway reposting:
well no wonder Yunchun had a deficit, he had taken out a large sum as advance. (i feel so stupid for feeling genuinely sorry for him when that Nameless Song came out.)
totally irrelevant but i wonder how much were Yunho's and Changmin's advances in comparison?
some glaring inconsistencies that i instantly noticed:
JYJ fans version:
"The payment has been reflected as money paid in advance on the nominal accounts. It will be reflected as a loan and normal employees have to pay interest when they request for these advance payments." by withjyj
2Paradise version:
- Sometimes it does become a problem. Advance is a type of loan, and interest needs to be collected. For regular employees, they pay interest for the advance they received, but for the singers, even though the amount is comparably much larger, we pay them as advanced payment, so we don’t collect interests, and it does get noticed during every audit.
(my company has a employee loan program where we pay a fixed amortization every pay date over a fixed period of time, at no interest charged to us. it's a kind of company benefit for us.)
JYJ fans version:
transportion, food expenses, housekeeper, etc were charged as TVXQ expenses
2Paradise version:
"Q) But even though it’s specified that way on paper, but in reality, the company paid for everything according to the final expense report generated during account settlement. Is that information correct?
- Yes."
JYJ fans version:
the members were never paid the KRW50M stipulated in the contract for having sold 480K copies of Mirotic just because they haven't participated in/did not make the succeeding album
2paradise version:
"Q) According to the exclusive contract, when albums sales of more than 500,000 are achieved, is 50 million KRW paid when the next album is released?
- Yes
Q) Is there an album released where the 3 participated after the 4th album Mirotic?
- There is not.
Q) The condition for the payment was not met?
- Yes (This answer was erased from the record by the judge because he determined that it’s not the witness’ responsibility)"
also there were some "i don't know" answers from the witness in the other version which i didn't find here. (are witnesses even allowed to answer in this manner?)
i recommend everyone to read the other version and compare it with this one for yourselves.
thanks Precious for the fast translation! much appreciated. i must say, this whole affair and all the people behind it single handedly made me sympathetic to SME who i've been indifferent to for 7 years. bravo.
Ah, thank you so much for the translation :) super fast ^^
ReplyDeleteDon't see anything wrong with how things (contract) work between SM & TVXQ according to information in this court transcript.
@shimjang Yeah yoochun was smart, advanced money from SM has no interest~ even tho he probably didn't think of it that way, he probably just think that it's an easier & faster process :)
See, this is why this site is reliable~ ^^
Thank you Precious. This topic made a hot convo in twitter. I wonder why? but when I was read by myself the whole summary translation here, I realize why it become a hot topic. Hahaha.. What a lucky & rich slaves they are. Got so much money in advance from the Master because the Master trust them..Sigh! Until now, I always curious to know what is the real intention of CJS against SME? Money? Freedom? Happiness? Popularity?Fairness? I just wish they never regret of this, because after the anger already gone only regret will be left.
ReplyDeleteThis lawsuit is getting interesting. Can't wait for your next post.
@ cat1177
ReplyDeleteAnd to think the transcript I used was the summary... :)
I've read some other version that had more details, but I wanted to provide something quick and chose this one to translate.
I don't know if I can take translating the full 2 hr version... don't wanna think about it. arghghgh...
@ahmad
ReplyDeleteprobably a combination of all those reasons? i believe Yunho's sad admission of "too much too young" in KDG. i believe the 3 (or maybe just 2 that time?) believed that TVXQ could make it on their own without SM and sought to convince the remaining members to leave together. they could have more creative freedom as artists, more control over their own careers, etc.. Homin obviously thought "no we're fine here" and the division was drawn 3:2 by their creative differences and business decisions. obviously SM and Homin had problems with the inevitable link of Crebeau to the TVXQ name (whether intentional or not). SME and TVXQ are about to launch a huge Asian attack and they need the image to be as untainted as possible. so no matter what the JYJ side say, Crebau obviously was an issue and played a part in the group's division. it's not a coincidence that the group is now split exactly between Crebeau investors and non-investors. quite sad really. as 5 they could have been so much more than what they already were.
@Precious
FIGHTING!!! lol
Something to notice!
ReplyDeleteLaw firm Sejong:
We request to get an **interlocutory judgment quickly, separate from the injunction judgment, so the 3 can work freely. SM’s influence in the entertainment industry is strong, and because of direct and indirect restrictions, the 3’s domestic entertainment activities and appearances in broadcasting are impossible. The 3’s domestic activities are halted because many entertainment producers actually think the contract is valid because of the lack of judgment.
Law firm JPJS:
First, where are the evidences that SM interfered directly or indirectly with JYJ’s activities? An interlocutory judgment is not necessary. These two subjects are like two sides of the coin, and aside from determining the validity/invalidity of the contract; the damage suits are closely related to them. It is not necessary to provide separate evidences for the two cases, and the verdict must be given all at once after examining the whole situation[/b] as the trials are proceeding as a parallel case.
===
The 3's lawyers try to pull a fast one on the presiding judge to hold SME accountable or to make access the 3 to be on domestic broadcasts when even the judge knows that this is out of SME's hands, especially after rejecting the injunction to bar them from interfering with the 3's activities.
SME's lawyers in respose went beyond, saying, where's the proof that we're halting their activities in using our powers to stop them being broadcast domestically? The lawyers stated, the judge should make only 1 decision at the end, that decision should either hold the contract VALID or INVALID, after the whole situation is examined.
The 3's lawyers are prying for outside sympathy, mainly from fans, to which now, domestically, are turning the tides in support for the remaining 2.
At the same time SME is just rolling along with the witnesses, they don't have to make this case long, but they're basically just gonna take their time and 'overkill' the case with facts of witnesses and testimonies to where the judge will no longer be able to deny, that yes, the contract WAS, IS, and WILL continue to be VALID!
However, I won't be ignorant to say that maybe by then, after all has been said and proven, that even us here in this blog, would have the heart to ask and maybe even beg, out of pity, for SME to forgive the 3 and to just let them go.
@precious: its KPMG not KMPG.^_^
ReplyDeletethank for all your hard work till now.
haven't commented for a while and i must say hmm the plot tickens....
@ katherinerosellemanaois
ReplyDeleteLOLOL At least I got their home page address correct. Thanks for the correction. :)
just noticed it because i'm familiar with KPMG with my accounting background.
ReplyDeletemissed reading your posts and commenting.
looking forward to your following posts this month!
thank you so much for ur hardwork!
ReplyDeleteread this and I feel pathetic for JYJ fans, they are just blinded by their oppas and even try to twist the truth.
I feel pitiful for SM also, they've done a lot of good things but still be defamed.
And for those 3, I have nothing to say.
@ Precious
ReplyDeleteI can only roll my eyes at the 20 mil > 200 mil comparison made by JYJ lawyer, I guess he's trying to confuse the witness. Luckily she didn't fall for it.
I don't care about the amount of money as long as HoMin agrees to it.
@ NoName
JCS are still employees of SME, so it's logical for the company to take care of their basic employee benefits until the court declares the contract to be invalid. If a person read the court injunction carefully, they can still work as TVXQ members if they willing to compromise. However they choose not to and went ahead with their own activities to capitalised on their 'freedom'. SME cannot force them so HoMin are stuck without a group activity and returned as a TVXQ duo after waiting for a year.
To be honest I don't want JCS to be part of TVXQ anymore. They have credit as 'JYJ' to themselves but if they return to TVXQ now, they will share credit for HoMin's work this year. Imagine if JCS is back with TVXQ in mid-year and KYHD won the Daesang. Won't it be awkward since the album is the work of 2 members, not 5. I know this is a selfish thought, but knowing how selfless Yunho can be he will probably insist JCS to be on stage or thank them as well coz they are -TVXQ- members. I will be unhappy coz I spent my money on HoMin not JCS (or I would buy JYJ merchs too). I'm not sure if The beginning is eligible for Daesang coz it's technically an English album.
Now C-JeS is being sued because of the free showcase in USA last year and they filed a defamation countersuit. Eventhough it's the agency, JCS reputation is being drag through the mud because of their agencies incompetencies.
@slixe
It's common sense. Why would we want to pay more when there's a cost-saving option? If my company has the same policy I would have done the same thing too.
@shimjang
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean.
It's easy to sway the fact that the 3 is technically under SME still pending a decision the lawsuit. Amidst the heated debate we all have, it's easy to not realize that. I agree, the 3 can still at any time drop the suit and come back to SME (maybe without penalty? except embarrassment) as long as they fulfill their obligations under the contract. But will they? of course, from what we saw and have seen already, they are at the point of no return.
No comment with CJes.
===
Something kind of unrelated, but should warm our hearts as fans.
from ppppppppppppa@twitter:
http://bit.ly/ezqekw wah.. japanese yunho fan-blog ring "ONE" donated 5,000,000 yen for earthquake victims ꏿ◇ꏿ!!! http://twitpic.com/4al9se
$630,000 o_O!
Thank you so much for this translation. It took me already some time to READ it, so I can't imagine how long it takes to TRANSLATE it... (not to mention the full two hour transcrip)
ReplyDeleteHowever it gives us a good overview of the situation and everyone can see that most facts are in favour for SM. *clap clap* I already read some CJS fan's versions and I cant believe that they think half a page of questions to which the witness couln't answer to is the proof that this was another hearing which proofed that CJS are the victims. Really how pathetic. The don't and don't want to see at least a bit of the truth. -.-
I think those fans will go berserk if the court ruled in favour for SM XD
I really don't know if I should feel disgusted by CJS's surroundings for misleading them or by the tree themself for all the lies to damage SM's and HoMin's reputation...
@Precious,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much, you kinda spoil us, hahahah... but yeah, this is so much better than color coded translation and ___;;;... Funny how for JYJ sites apparently a legal proceeding with definitive answers can be represented with emoticons.
Like you said, the contract isn't perfect, but the fact that SM honors that by giving the three an advance in 2010 shows that SM is not the slave driving company those 'conspirators' want people to believe. They're a business, a LEGALLY established LISTED company FREQUENTLY AUDITED and TRADED in the STOCK MARKET REGULATED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Will comment more when my brain is done translating all the legal and accounting fun. Thanks!
I have to admit I am confused though... why is everyone saying that the contract is no longer valid? The Exclusive Clause in the contract has been proven invalid through the injunction in 2009 and again in the court ruling last February when they denied SM's injunction.
ReplyDeleteThe translation I read from the 09 ruling was that SM is ordered not to interfere or raise objections against the three's independent activities, it also said that regarding the circumstances, it was not necessary to void the contract. Did I misunderstand the translation or is the translation unreliable?
Technically, the three is still contracted with SM (esp if they are to do activities as TVXQ), but they are free to decide for themselves activities beyond TVXQ (before all activities must go through SM).
I love this site, not just bec of Precious' post, but because fans here are analytical and allowed to use their brain for expressing opinion - fanatic fans are a shame to the fandom, today I felt the wrath of fanatic Homin fans myself just bec of my honest opinion, 2 times, while Im a dedicated Homin fan myself so it broke my heart so bad -_-;;; (yes im ranting. I dont deserve it GDI)
ReplyDeleteOn to the comment....
wow... you know what, what you've posted is still summary, right? I cant believe how long this is compared to the more summarized version of what "the other side" have posted... srsly 2 hours trial was simplified in few lines and sitcom-like emoticons??
and what's impressive is that the readers appreciate and believe that kind of writing.
They also said that TVXQ should pay for SM's executives gases and parking fee? Do you know something abt that, bec in that summary i dont read anything about TVXQ paid 100%.
and contrary to prediction/popular belief, seems like Jaejoong's expense was more 'humble' than Junsu, eh?
SM's witness said that the 3 members never requested to check the accounting works... I wonder how JYJ's lawyer respond to this. Bec so far, JYJ's side (and their fans) always use the reason of SM's ignoring their requests over and over as a reason to do an act as extreme as lawsuit :/
again, thank you for the works, precious!
I did find it weird that SM would bring in a witness who wouldn't know anything that's why I was wary about the news released by the JYJ fansites. But based on the trial summary provided by Precious, it feels like CJS leaving was quite abrupt contrary to their previous statements. They often cited that before they publicized/lodged the complaint against SM, they had already gone through talks and negotiations. It doesn't even make sense how they were able to identify discrepancies with their salaries and finances when they haven't brought their own accountant in yet. JYJ's lawyer citing an advance in taxes also doesn't make sense, I mean how would you be able to compute your taxes in advance when you haven't even received your earnings. For the basic salary earner its okay but for artists how can you forecast album/single sales right? Finally, I was really amused that even the judge is awkward at acknowledging them as TVXQ. Just shows that even ordinary people / non-fans don't really see them as TVXQ anymore.
ReplyDeleteSo, nowadays slaves can request millions-won advance payment, huh?
ReplyDeleteThe more I read it, the more I feel that JYJ are too greedy & their unnamed song is totally bull****. How dare them to even make that song in the first place. How crazy the JYJ-fans to use that as the proof of JYJ "endless suffering". Do they seriously think that no-one will ever know the truth? They still have the face to make SME pay for their traffic violation. Unbelievable!!! I seriously believe they will return to SME if they don't have any way out without paying so much damage for breaching the contracts & defamation.
I have the same sentiment with everyone above me.
Wow~ It's already a summarized one and it's this long! Thank u so much Precious ^__^
ReplyDeleteFrom the beginning I don't want to read any trans out there, just wait for ur trans. I don't need a distorted information, just want to know the fact.
Just have one thing to say, I don't want those 3 come back to SM and TVXQ.
when I read the other translation, i loled. leave it to that side to make it into a drama. and gosh, that song w/ out a lyric ;) or whatever yc calls it is just such a sham!! ug.
ReplyDelete@Precious,
thank you so much for this translation.
"...I'm gonna lose all the credibility..."
OMG. NO WAY! After your track record, you will never lose credibility. You are the only one that has ANY. I just wish someone could help you with all the translation so the blog doesn't affect your personal life too much.
thankyou for the translation precious ^^
ReplyDeleteit's a shame how JYJ stans edit this news to cover they oppas fault
@ pfau
ReplyDeleteI do feel sorry for SM too. I really don't think they did anything seriously wrong to be slandered like this. The contract itself may be judged to be unfair, but that is just because CJS side decided to exploit the clauses where it is unfair even though in reality it didn't matter.
@ heyonmu
No, it's not perfect, but if the contract really was the problem, I think SM would've modified it further to keep TVXQ together, but CJS never asked to fix it.
Many thinks the contract is invalid because international fans didn't read the actual verdict and only saw articles about SM losing the injunction. Those articles claim that the judge ruled that contract was unfair even though that is not true.
@ lapis.lazuli
Do you know why the other side's transcript is short? Because they took the transcript done by HoMin's side, and removed everything that's disadvantageous to their "oppas", and added garbage. They do that all the time.
@ krystokkers
Yeah, I'm kinda confused about the taxes too. Maybe they got the advance for the previous year's tax after spending all their money.
@ kirsch87
In my opinion, I don't think they can come back to SM even if they wanted to because of C-Jes. At this point, I don't think SM will take them back anyways especially with TVXQ's recent success. The lawsuit is important to SM to clear their name, and also to get compensated for the damages this lawsuit has caused.
@ shanancelice
Don't worry. CJS won't go back to SM. It doesn't make sense for SM to take them back after putting so much effort re-establishing TVXQ as two, and also, I highly doubt SM would want to work with them any more after all this.
@ crheem
LOL, thanks for the complement. I'm flattered!!!
@ verachan
Nothing new there. :)
I'm a silent reader since Jan . Because of my poor english , i dunno how to express my thought of this blog .
ReplyDeleteJust want to say THANK YOU Precious for all your hardwork . Really admire your high EQ when you confront with the crazy fans .
Thank you for this translation!! I read one that is kind of similar to this trans in LJ and people there said that the author was "pro sm". Sigh.
ReplyDeleteThanks again!! I hope SM wins. And I agree with the comments above me, I don't want CJS to go back to TVXQ. They would only steal the spotlight when it was Yunho and Changmin who worked hard for their comeback this year.
@cinderellaboy10
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly I am kind of amazed that people are accusing SM's witness of lying. They do realize that would be called perjury and could put you in jail for up to 5 years in Korea right?? It's all a bit bewildering cause I am sorry nothing is worth spending time in jail. I mean seriously those JYJ fanatics gotta be smoking something and whatever it is I want some!(j/k)haha.
@precious
ReplyDeleteby any chance the word loyalty in your translation, does it actually mean royalty? i studied accounting and business law. i think it's royalty - A payment made for the use of property, copyrighted work.
thanks for the translation. i really appreciate it. ^^
Precious!
ReplyDeleteThanks once again, worthy for long waiting.
I was quite surprised when read another version summary before Precious posted this translation, it was even translated in my language (Thai) and no doubt… many young readers were so angry with SM and as usual … strongly bashed SM but they don’t bash HoMin. So I noticed most of TVXQ fans in my country still support all five member, they seem unaware what happened!
Since I know this blog I didn’t take anything in JYJ site seriously they are really predictable! XD
Very interesting about next hearing witness, former TVXQ manager, I remember in Yunho’s shooting for Goong Musical, I saw one of TVXQ former manager visited him at the location, I am quite not sure how long this manager took care of TVXQ because I’m not the fan since debut, but I always see him in many TVXQ clips. But wouldn’t it be more interesting, if that former manager would be the one who came to China with CJS ;) Can’t wait for next hearing April 19!
@lapis.lazuli, exactly what I feel. I love reading you guys analyzes I have to admit that I’m like general TVXQ fans, that’s why I was blinded by those JYJ bias sites before. I don’t have any specific knowledge about Lawsuit, Accounting, nor Entertainment Business but reading many posts by Precious and esp. many comments here, I gain more those infos. Thanks ^_^
I’d recommend you guys to draft your comments in notepad first ^^ Blogspot always eats up my comments too.
@ angel_in_disguise89
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I made the corrections, thanks! :)
@ natend
I was wondering if the manager requested as the witness is the same person who went to China with CJS for Crebeau promotion because that manager quit SM with CJS together.
two posts! whooo thank you precious for finally more things worth reading after so long. (: -i've been stalking this blog like crazy, waiting for new posts to be posted hahaha.
ReplyDeleteanyway, to the article, i'm going to say the truth that i didn't bother reading the other side's translation, but i can imagine just how they're written. still an appreciation to them though; of how can people twist the facts with their own opinions and how other people would still follow them blindly. kudos to jyj fanatics!
that aside, i think this translation just prove more on how responsible sme as a company is. too bad just because a small, we can say minor thing if being compare with all the major good things they've done, mistake suddenly everyone are judging them as the root of all evil. it's amazing how they still fulfill their responsibilities to the 3 even though if they could just not do it (because, again, sme is bad and can do everything.) i sincerely hope sme would win this lawsuit because what the 3 and their sides have done is already more than just defamation.
questions; i wonder since all the transcripts seem to be from homin fans side, is there any from jyj fans? i mean, as people who actually attend the trial? and i remember last year yochun seemed to bought a new car, so whose money was that? and this house mentioned in the transcript, is yoochun still live in that house now?
and i read an article about how an investor suing c-jes because of money problem. i don't want to think if it's true or not, but aside of knowing that that company gets shadier each day, i want to stab someone in the face for reading how jyj fans keep saying things like 'oppars are gods ok they can't do anything wrong -even if they have problems it's a / b / c / z's faults' etc. can't they think that maybe, their oppars are human as well?
@ jaegiya
ReplyDeleteI think SM is waiting for the lawsuit to end before tying all the loose knots. When extreme antis were bashing Moon Heejoon (HOT) on the web, calling him with all sorts of name (one example was "no brain bug - MooNwaeChoong - rhymes with his name), SM waited for a while until the bashing really got out of hand then reported those netizens to authority. It was found out that those fans were Jr. High/High School kids so Moon dropped the charges.
There may be more lawsuits after this trial is over, especially against those individuals who were leading this defamation.
I know there were some transcripts from JYJ side for the last trial, which were basically identical to HoMin sides transcript, but for some reason, I didn't find any detailed transcript from the JYJ side this time. The JYJ ones for this trial look like edited version from HoMin side. I guess they gave up attending the trial because more negative information towards JYJ gets revealed every time. When I translate the rest of the trials, you'll know more about them. There are many non-fans who figured out what's going on by just reading the court transcripts. LOL
As for YuChun's car, he bought a Ferrari California, and JYJ fans claim that he bought it with money he earned after getting out of SM. Whatever.
I believe he still lives in that house. People call it "Yuchun palace".
CJS are human? That's a news. I thought they could do no wrong just like SM that could do no right.
@Precious:
ReplyDeletei have a quesion for you. Do you know when will the next trial session happen? i'm waiting for the say the lawsuit end.
@ havl_lovelygirl
ReplyDeleteYes, there's another session in the middle of next month. SM Japan's Nam Soyoung is going to take the stand. Can't wait to hear her testimony. I don't think that session is going to be the last one if the court decides to accept more witnesses. I don't know if JYJ side will present their side of witnesses. If they do, that means more sessions.
The lawsuit could last for a year or two or even 3 if the losing side decides to appeal the decision and the trial goes to the highest court, so it's not going to end any time soon.
@precious
ReplyDeleteSomething just hit me lol. I remembered you said something along the lines of if JYJ decided not to use the injunction (that's like the speedy/short way (kind of)to get out of a contract) but rather to take the longer way...JYJ will have a better chance of winning the case. My question is how or why?
If I misread, I apologize (HUGE SORRY).
thanks for your answer. And thanks for what you do for HOMIN. if the lawsuit doesn't end soon, it really create many disadvantages for HOMIN.i think JYJ never accept to be a loser and C-jes too-it's not a pure company.i hope the court makes a definitive decision.
ReplyDelete@Precious
ReplyDeleteTell me about it. I was shocked when I got a hold of the TRANSLATED version of the preliminary injunction given to JYJ in 2009. It made me LOL, because it clearly stated that THE COURT said that 'through negotiations, the possibility of the three resuming activities as TVXQ cannot be ruled out'. Even the court was trying to protect TVXQ as 5 by granting CJS the freedom to do INDEPENDENT ACTIVITIES, but they do recognize that SM has a claim over TVXQ just like the members. From the words of Heenim, some people read, but they do not understand.
And yeah, one thing people forget, is that SM is no newbie in this business. I do think there is another lawsuit coming up after this one is over.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteWell, if I think again, you're right. If I was SME, I also won't take them back, but I would make sure that JYJ pay for the damage they had done. JYJ destroy TVXQ(Homin) & SME name.
I really100x hope that SME will win the lawsuit for the sake not only Homin, but also for all the current & future artists and all people worked under SME.
@ AzNezumi
ReplyDeleteBecause after CJS received the injunction judgment, they didn't file for the actual lawsuit for 8 months delaying the process, and during that period, many evidences against them have been found, and also the public opinion that was favoring them turned against them now because of those findings. If they filed the main lawsuit with the injunction, that wouldn't have happened.
@ havl_lovelygirl
I don't think the lawsuit actually affects HoMin directly, so it really doesn't matter too much for HoMin.
@ kirsch87
Yes, if CJS returned earlier, then maybe, but at this point, SM has invested so much money and effort to establish TVXQ as two, it doesn't even make sense business wise to take the 3 back, not to mention the huge "trust" issue as well.
@ hyeonmu
Did you get the 2paradise version of the translation?
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteI have to beg to differ at some degree. True that JYJ side intentionally hide the whole truth from their fans. I think that's the reason why Precious went through troubles to translate the most complete summary of the transcript. It's to reveal the truth as much as possible, not to reveal that SM is the righteous party. So let's make our stand still - neutral in the matter.
Personally I don't feel comfortable to take SM's side. CJS are not angels. Neither is SM. I would like to see more truth and draw my own conclusions like what Precious did for us than brainwashed by JYJ sites as JYJ fans. By all means, it didn't mean that I would think in favor of SM. But I will definitely give SM more credits and more benefits of doubt after seeing all these.
1. True SM covered all operational fees in the end. But doesn't the fact that it is actually against the contract speak for itself that the contract is not completely fair? I would hope that SM covered all the operational costs for HM and other artists from then on.
2. The part about the dispute of the copies of Mirotic sold sounds like a trick. If MV cost is submitted by production department, then it's at SM's cost. If it's submitted by marketing department, then it's at artists' cost. So what's the rule to distinguish which MV is considered a production and which is promotional? Isn't it easy for the company to manipulate? I can't believe that CJS's lawyers will let this one slide so easy. Just for Mirotic MV, I remembered that it was included in the all about TVXQ season 3 DVD. So if the MV is commercialized, shouldn't it be considered as production instead of promotion?
3. Why on earth the artists have to wait till next album release before they could collect revenue on the current album sale? The fact that it's sold over 500,000 copies should be enough to grant the additional bonus. I don't think that the clause is fair.
4. There are translations from JYJ's side that is not included in the above translation. So I will take them as a complementation until I see the detailed transcript.
5. When SM argues that in 06 and 07 TVXQ didn't bring too much revenue to the company and therefore TVXQ's profits were cut as well. BUT, it's the company's decision to send TVXQ to Japan. If TVXQ stayed in Korea, they would have earned a lot more! And why should TVXQ get penalized for that decision! They, instead, should have been compensated for sending them away from Korean market! If it's us, the company decided to send us abroad, there will definitely be compensations, travel fees, gas fees etc. What SM did is to bully TVXQ and took big advantage of TVXQ when they were not that powerful. Maybe the outcome of it turns out that the company's decision is wise for their career in the long run. But no one knows for sure at that time and it's still irrelavant to the fact that TVXQ should have been compensated for being sent away to Japan for a few years.
I don't agree with what JYJ fans did, that is, to keep their fans in dark. But I won't take side just because of this. I do wish that SM would improve on the unfair clauses of their contract with all their artists and compensate all TVXQ members for what they deserve.
The last but not the least, IMHO, we should only worry about things under our control. For HoMin, that is to offer the best live performance and entertainment to audiences (not fans). For us, that is to buy their albums and go to their concerts so the awards they receive by the end of the year will match their efforts. Whether SM will take CJS back, how the court will rule, whether HM will take CJS back and alike, is just not something for us to worry.
Guys, let us keep our cool. I was surprised by some facts about CJS revealed by the court transcript too. But I will just leave it like that. Don't escalate the fanwar for it's not worth it.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteCan I have your permission to translate your translation into Chinese and post on my own blog? I think that everyone deserves to know the truth.
Thanks!
@ wakeupgogo
ReplyDeleteSure, I have no problem.
Let me clarify some of your argument, because some of the things you listed is not how I interpreted it.
1. Just because SM decided to cover the operational costs, does not mean that part of the contract was unfair. The deal between TVXQ and SM is "profit sharing" contract, not salaried so it does make sense to share the cost of operations, and that kind of deal is actually pretty common. It's almost like a partnership deal.
2. That part I agree with you. I don't know exactly why they did it that way, but according to the contract, the MV cost should have been the production cost.
3. If you read the transcript, they already got paid for the album according to the sales (calculated at 480,000), so it's not like they never got paid for the sales. The payment for the subsequent album release sounds like an incentive payment to me. Even US record labels have similar clauses. I interpreted it as a kind of "bonus" payment when certain album sales criteria is met.
4. I have stated that the above translation is a summary. Once the complete transcript becomes available, I'm sure it will include everything that's left out.
5. According to the resolution the parents signed during "Rotation", the members and the parents were aware of the overseas activities even 2004, so it's not fair to say that SM forced TVXQ's overseas activities. It was with mutual consent. Also, according to the court testimony from the previous session (I will translate it too eventually), SM rep testified that the plan was explained to the members and the parents, and they signed the contract with the full knowledge of the plan.
Back then, SM only had BoA who was succeeding in Japan, so it was a risk for SM as well to send TVXQ to Japan. If SM just wanted safe money, they could just keep TVXQ in Korea, but it was decided to send them to Japan. From what I heard, SM did a lot to support TVXQ's success in Japan in addition to huge investment they had to make to support TVXQ when they weren't making any money. If you look at it from another angle, as an artist, it may be a chance of a lifetime to get investment from a company to have activities overseas. Not many artists will get that chance if you think about it, and as you know, TVXQ was ready to make huge amount of money if they stayed on course. Like Changmin said in KDG, they only needed to "harvest" it. Too bad it didn't turn out that way. So CJS's action definitely hurt HoMin, and SM couldn't collect its fair dues after investing money and company resources for their success.
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteNo, actually I didn't know that 2paradise did a translation of the injunction ruling, I used the version done by Inklette from DNBN, posted by Tohosomnia just a few days after the ruling was given in 2009. I personally didn't think about going beyond that, you know how hardcore JYJ defenders say all sites that only promotes TVXQ duo are antis and can't be trusted.
Do you have a link to that?
PS. I did a post on the recent WSP and SM episode. If it is okay with you, I would like to share the link with everyone here.
Thanks Precious!
@ hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteMy mistake, for some reason, I thought you were talking about the court session for the SM's objection to the injunction. I didn't know Inklette translated the actual injunction.
Anyways, if ur interested, here's the translation to the objection to the injunction. I'll probably use it when I post about the lawsuits, meanwhile you can read it.
http://www.2paradise.us/bo/bbs/board.php?bo_table=lawsuit&wr_id=95&page=2
As for your your post, do you want me to copy yours on my blog or are you asking whether you can provide link on the comment?
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteI was planning to just leave a link here ^__^
And I also had a comment on the convo you have with wakeupgogo, but blogspot rejects it, but then I read your info about the 16 minutes MV and really... I can't think of anything else!!!
Can I email you my long comment instead? IDK why Blogspot won't let me post anything over 100 words.
@ hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteSure, email me the comment. It's interesting though. Wakeupgogo had no problem posting a long comment. Do you get any kind of message when your comments are rejected by blogspot?
Oh, and yeah, go ahead and leave a link. :)
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteLike I said, blogspot hates me, LOL
When I try to leave a longer comment, it shows a little red square, it doesn't even show the random word checkpoint. I wonder if it's because I'm using a Wordpress account and not a Blogspot one...
Link--> http: //hyeonmu.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/my-personal-review-what-the-counter-suit-sm-filed-really-meant-part-1/
thanks a bunch Precious!
@ wakeupgogo
ReplyDeleteHere's hyeonmu's take on your comment.
Dear WakeupGogo and Precious, just to share my own 2 cents, this is what I feel about the points wakeupgogo raised:
1. Regarding operational cost, if it doesn’t come from the income that TVXQ bring to SM, where will SM get the money to pay for all operational cost for TVXQ? From the income Super Junior brings? Or LSM’s own pocket? Or from KYM’s? Will it be fair then?
In a large corporation with many profit generating businesses, there are something called ‘budget allocation’. TVXQ is one of the many profit generating ‘work unit’ of SM, and for that ‘unit’ to generate income, there are some costs, like employee salary, promotional costs, travelling expenses, where will SM get the money to pay for these costs if it isn’t from that own unit’s income?
This is not a strange practice for a corporation. Let’s take a bank (since I work in one, I am more familiar with the business process) for example, if the Corporate Credit Division manages to generate 40% of the company’s profit, does that mean only that division enjoys the profit and get bonus? Remember there are NON PROFIT GENERATING UNITS (Supporting Units) like the Credit Administration that process the application, Legal team that drafts the credit agreement, even the drivers and other non administrative staff that ensure these Corporate Account Officers are able to do their job well. It is only natural that all the profit generates by the Corporate Credit Team consolidated before distributed back to the whole company, in other words, a profit generating unit pays for a non-profit generating unit, because just like our body, without one organ, even one as insignificant and invisible from the outside like our liver, we can’t function well.
Isn’t TVXQ the same? Can we really say that they are successful due to the hard work of the 5 members and the 5 members only? No, there are stylists, cordis, choreographers, backup dancers, managers, and so on. Is it fair that only the five members receive the profit they made when it is a collaborative effort of the team? The fact that SM ends up covering for all operational costs (which I think includes all the supporting staff) means they had to take the money somewhere else, is it fair for Super Junior to pay for the operational cost of TVXQ or vice versa?
Maybe not. We can’t really tell SM to cover all operational costs for TVXQ when we don’t even know the proportion of expense they incurred to the company as compared to the income they generate for the company.
2. Now, I can’t say I am too sure about the whole production vs promotion thing, and since none of us actually work for SM, to say that this sounds like a trick is too premature.
We don’t even have examples of things that is handled by the production department and those handled by promotional department to know if SM is following a good corporate governance or trying to pull a fraud, but for me personally, when it comes to an entertainer, isn’t ALL PRODUCTION IS USED FOR PROMOTION?
Let’s take an indie band for example, do they have an MV? Maybe not, do they still sell their albums? Yes. Do they still manage to perform on indie clubs and stages? Yes. So technically, an artist doesn’t need an MV to be called an artist, so why do SM and TVXQ spend so much time and money on MVs?
It is to PROMOTE their album, to gain more EXPOSURE for the group by putting their faces on national TV and to gaining new fans by creating new interest. Isn’t that, in essence, the definition of a promotional tool?
Yes, the MV was included in AADBSK season 3, but wasn’t it AADBSK 3 after the MV was released? So the original purpose of the MV was as a promotional tool, it was then added to AADBSK 3, I am sure the cost of putting it into the disk is considered a Production cost, but since the MV was created before that, how can we justify it’s usage for Production when AADBSK hasn’t been produced yet?
(continued)
ReplyDelete3. I do find this clause weird like you do. Still can’t figure out why this clause was put in this way, but for me, fairness of a contract is only decided on how the person connected to that particular contract feel about it.
Remember that Yunho and Changmin signed the same contract with the other three members, and so far, I haven’t heard these two said anything to the effect that because the three were given an injunction and didn’t want to negotiate with SM for TVXQ’s comeback they were also denied their share of this additional bonus when JYJ is already busy promoting their own album. They didn’t because they knew what they signed to, and no matter how unfair JYJ sees it, Yunho and Changmin doesn’t feel the same way. So who’s right and who’s wrong?
For me, it is not the fact that this clause is ‘unfair’ that is the problem, it is the fact that the whole ‘JYJ weren’t given the additional bonus’ argument used against SM when the people involved KNEW EXACTLY WHY THEY WEREN’T GETTING PAID is the essence of the problem.
4. I would love to see those translations as well. Do you have a link to those translations? The one I found uses color coding and emoticons, I personally can’t comprehend WHY anyone would use emoticons when talking about an OFFICIAL COURT HEARING. It’s just too… juvenile.
5. I have to say I disagree completely with your last point about SM bullying TVXQ by sending them to Japan, away from the Korean market. Remember what makes TVXQ different from all the other idol groups in Korea. No, not because they are mighty fine, it isn’t their vocal abilities, and no, it isn’t their wonderful showmanship either, those are the things every idol group can attain.
IT IS THE FACT THAT THEY BROKE THE RECORD AS THE FOREIGN ARTIST THAT TOPPED ORICON MORE THAN TWICE IN A ROW (I think THSK’s record was 6 times in a row). Can this happen if SM pull them straight back to Korea? Will we remember them as the legend that conquered Japan market then? Will we know Tohoshinki as they are now? Will the world recognize TVXQ as they are now?
The fact that SM took the risk to keep investing in TVXQ even after they incurred losses means SM has a big faith in TVXQ. They knew if anyone could do what BoA did for Kpop artistes, it is TVXQ.
Also remember that in order to promote in Japan, SM worked with AVEX too, and we don’t know the details of that particular agreement. Remember that when TVXQ doesn’t sell as well as people expected their first two years in Japan, it wasn’t only TVXQ and SM that incurred losses, AVEX did too. So why did AVEX kept working with TVXQ instead of just dropping them when they see the expenses bringing down the company’s profit generated by their own Japanese artists? Your guess is as good as mine.
I won’t say I am 100% supportive of SM, yes, there are several things they could have done better, but honestly, as a human beings, I personally find it difficult to change some of the things I did because I never found anything wrong with it. If I wasn’t told that I spoke too loud, I won’t try to control my excitement when speaking with my friends. Everyone needs input, even SM, to become better.
My biggest problem in this fandom is the fact that SM is used as a convenient scapegoat because some people had difficulty processing that TVXQ consisting 5 young men, all human, all with their own desires/wishes/ambitions and somewhere along the way, the perfect brotherhood isn’t so perfect after all.
@ hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteSure you can.
Click here for the article
Just need to know a little HTML.
@ hyeonmu and Precious
ReplyDeleteThank you both for the long comments. I guess that it's just our personal POVs after all. I have to stand by my own opinions especially for number 5. The fact that TVXQ didn't have enough bargain power to negotiate or to say no doesn't mean that it's a mutual consent in the decision. If you watched enough TVXQ talk shows, it's so apparent that all five of them resented the decision. The outcome can't be used to justify the cause. The investment can't be used to justify the necessary compensation (If you ever run a business, then you should know better that don't even expect to see a positive cash flow in the first two years. Can you avoid paying salary/benefits/compensation to the employee during the two years? Of course no!). I think that the court already indicated so in the injuction ruling. And please don't use the fact that HoMin stayed with SM to justify everything SM had done. Like I said before, I will just leave it to the court and focus on things that is under my control.
@Precious,
Can't wait for the HoMin's full MV to be released!
@Precious: thank you! Me and HTML stopped talking in 2008, LOL
ReplyDelete@wakeupgogo: I agree with most of your points, and yes, this is all just a matter of opinion.
Mind if I ask where it has been said that SM didn't pay TVXQ's salary/benefit/compensation?
My definition of profit is revenue minus expense. Salary/benefit/compensation is an expense. Profit for me is everything TVXQ made subtracted by the expense they incurred, the remaining is then divided.
I could be wrong though, been a while since I open my Accounting books.
@ wakeupgogo
ReplyDeleteIf TVXQ got paid salaries like Japanese artists do, then your argument makes sense, but because they were in a profit sharing deal, then it is perfectly legit for their income to vary according to the overall profit. You can't compare TVXQ with regular employees who get paid salary. That kind of deal is really common. Just look at any sales people who gets paid on the commission. Some people have base salaries, but many gets paid 100% on commission, so if they don't make any sales, they don't get paid period, and there's nothing wrong with that. Actually, people who are more capable would choose 100% commission pay structure because it pays more than salaried employees.
It's the risk you take by signing a profit share deals. The advantage of that is getting huge dividend when they make it big, which they did. Salaried employees will get a bit of raise and maybe some bonuses, but they'll never make huge amount of money like profit sharing agreement.
Also, according to HoMin's parents' statements, they both state that the agreement was mutual and the overseas activities were planned from the beginning, so either HoMin's parents are not telling the truth or their agreement was mutual.
lots of interesting (and looong haha) comments. glad to see still functioning brains despite last weekend's BUG performances :D (i don't know by this weekend though...)
ReplyDeletefirst off, thanks Precious for the injunction translation link from 2Paradise. haven't read it but will get to it after this post.
some of the accusations being leveled at SM regarding TVXQ's contract is actually record industry standard. this is an article from Sound On Sound's website (UK music magazine) which is a guide written by an entertainment lawyer for new artists who are about to embark on a recording career so basically it tells you what to expect in the contract you're about to sign. i'll paste the parts here that i thought are relevant:
* Rights Granted
Under most exclusive recording contracts, the artist will assign copyright in the sound recordings to the record company. An assignment is a transfer of ownership for the full life of copyright. In the case of sound recordings this will be 50 years from release.
* Advances
These are sums of money paid to the artist on account of future royalties. They're paid when the artist signs to the label, and again as and when further options are exercised.
More generous advances should be negotiated for the exercise of successive options — ie. when the next album becomes due — irrespective of whether previous advances have been recouped. Recoupment is a process by which the label will first recover the advance against any artist royalty income. Care should be taken to remove any wording stating that an advance is repayable. This would have the effect of turning it into a personal debt, which you could be liable for at any time. You should only ever have to repay advances where your record sales generate sufficient royalties to cover them. Failing that, the label bears the loss.
Remember, you'll probably have to split your advance with your manager and other members of your band (if there are any), as well as with the taxman, who will also take his cut. So even a generous advance can be eroded quite quickly.
continued...
ReplyDelete* Royalties
Artists are paid royalties based on record sales. In a typical major-label deal, the artist will earn somewhere between 14 and 18 percent of the record's dealer price (PPD) which may be between £6.50 and £8.50.
Before they'll see any money, the artist will have to recoup the recording costs, advances, and usually 50 percent of all video costs. The label will make additional deductions, reducing the real royalty rate still further.
Standard deductions — or standard as far as record labels are concerned — include a packaging deduction of 20 to 25 percent on CDs, a reduced royalty rate on foreign sales, budget records and record clubs, a reduced royalty on TV-advertised albums, and often no royalty at all on free goods (records given away to retailers and the media). Because you only get paid on royalty-bearing records, you'll need a cap on free goods, otherwise you'll be in trouble.
* Promotion
In order to raise the profile of a release, the artist will have to undertake some domestic and international promotional work. In the event that you don't follow in the footsteps of Sandi Thom, by webcasting your 'tour' from the comfort of your living room, the record company will deploy an army of radio, press, and new media marketeers to talk up your record. The considerable cost this may incur should not be recoupable from artist royalties. After all, the record label benefits whenever the record sells, and promotion is a reasonable overhead of their business. And, of course, with a likely earnings ratio of 3:1 in the label's favour, they're going to break even a lot quicker than any artist can recoup.
* Accounting
The artist only receives a royalty cheque once they've recouped. However, the label should still be sending royalty statements to the artist twice a year, detailing all relevant territories, tracks and earnings. For major labels, accounting normally happens 90 days following the end of the June and December periods — ie. in September and March.
link: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr07/articles/contracts.htm
of course not everything in the article is applicable to TVXQ's contract and the provisions vary from country to country, but if you bother to research on how music deals are done, you'll find that these kinds of deals are always tailored to benefit the record company. this doesn't mean that i think SM is 100% innocent. TVXQ signed a combined record and management deal, which means twice the "mess" they have to deal with, and i have some problems with the management side of the contract (such as the term and the breach of contract penalty clause). i'm just saying, if what the 5 boys signed were "slave" contracts, then all the music that we've been enjoying since we can remember were manufactured by "slaves".
I ended up in this site after watching the full version of TVXQ's before u go. I was also surprised by the advances that the 3 members made.
ReplyDeleteI don't know a lot about obligations and contract laws in Korea. But the best thing to do for JYJ was to get an accountant and maybe spend less. Invest money in lucrative businesses. They can't be idols forever.
Is this a trial by publicity? I mean most of the details are open to the public.
Oh, thanks for the post. Hope to see more detailed info on the lawsuit.
@Precious
ReplyDeletei believe your spam folder ate my first post, help :D
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteHonestly I see SM being quite generous about the advances. Having worked in Korea and now in America generally in England and North America advances are given to help with extra recording costs(new instruments, housing, and food) or even tour preparation costs(same as recording). With advances in Korea they are generally for personal use since the company usually takes care of all the others costs. The system is vastly different since in England your management and record company are separate while in Korea it is one in the same or your management takes care of the cd releases. Also advances in Korea are generally prepared for an individual not a whole group in North America and England they are obligatory for a new group or band so you end up splitting it between all of you unless you are solo. Although I admit I have a problem with what people are saying about the incentive issues.Generally there are obligations with incentive payments meaning there are certain things you have to do before you are eligible for it. From reading numerous transcripts and the contract I am under the assumption that part of JYJ's obligation was to be a part of the recording of a new studio album and since they were not they were no longer eligible for it.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeletethat's true. i was surprised at the sum that YC advanced. but i think most stans have the mentality of "but they're TVXQ! they're entitled to every cent they earn!!" which is not the reality at all. if this were the case then we wouldn't be seeing US artists filing for bankruptcy despite selling millions of records.
this doesn't mean though, that i don't think TVXQ didn't deserve more. but this is the system. if JYJ were mistreated then each and every artist out there are being mistreated.
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteIt's also very interesting to note that unlike American contracts the artists begins to earn money before the company recoup it's loses. In America contracts generally have the record label earning all royalties until the money they spent on you is all earned back which is why some artists have a hit record but no money to show for it. In Korea an artist will start to earn money as soon as they start to sell. Obviously not on records but on other items. In some ways a profit sharing contract can benefit an artist rather then hurt them. There are still some problems with the contract I mean obviously the contract termination fee is a bit high but it really is not as bad as others are making it out to be especially considering the system. For every country they have a different way of doing things and once you actually know it a lot of the contract actually makes sense and is not as unfair as it seems. Most idols in Korea have a profit sharing contract and include termination fees so I don't understand why everyone is getting so upset over this one. The truth is rookie level idols or trainees sign these contracts so once they are established they can sign a better one. Look at Kangta or BoA they started out on these type of contracts BoA's was probably almost exactly like TVXQ's but she finished it up and signed a better one. People forget this is a business so they are going to look out for there company but if you do well you will be rewarded as others who have stayed with the label have been. This is about money and about a contract that they think is unfair despite the fact that it is most likely standard fair for most newbies at SM.But JYJ and there fanatics have instead made this into some sort of crusade for human rights but apparently JYJ are the only ones who have any. Even though I never really figured out which ones were being broken.
@cat1177, @LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteI agree those who think CJS contract is not fair are highly influenced by false information as well as the idea of "Because CJS are TVXQ they deserve more". The idea of "because CJS are good and talented" their fans think that CJS need not to follow the law.
Only expert's opinion will be considered as valid in court right? So for this case it should be referred to Korean Entertainment system specifically or refer to global entertainer/agency contract guideline generally (using US or UK standards as reference works for international fans). Who are the one has the authority and responsibility to protect the right of entertainer and entertainment company in Korea? I would say the Korean Fair Trade Commission (KFTC), who draw the contract guideline. IF CJS contract (pertaining profit sharing clauses) with SME fail to comply to KFTC, CJS's lawyers will use it against SME and easily void the contract, and JYJ fans will blow the horn. So far I have not come across CJS's lawyer make any statement as such.
The trial on 15Mac was more about contract fulfillment on SME side, whether SME allow CJS to audit the account settlement, whether SME
hold back payment to CJS, whether SME transfer unnecessary cost to CJS, whether SME gave extra benefit to TVXQ and etc.....Have you read anything about the profit sharing clauses violate KFTC's guideline? I don't.
@Karen
ReplyDeleteExactly true. I believe that SMe revised specifically TVXQ contract in the past to keep with KFTC guidelines. Since then there has been no complaints about there contract not following set terms or guidelines. Obviously if there was a problem CJS fans would have already exploited the issue. No one has brought a claim of the contract being unlawful. Unfair yes but according to set guidelines and rules it's a legally binding document which is why they are having to go through the whole trial. If it was as simple as it not following guidelines or was unlawful in anyway it would have been canceled or revisions would have been forced. Remember it was SMe who filed the lawsuit to enforce the contract or get rid of it. If they had anything to hide or were not following set guidelines do you really think they would have filed knowing they would lose.
@ KFTC
ReplyDeleteTVXQ's contract does comply with KFTC guidelines as I stated in my post, but the problem is that those guidelines do not have any legal authorities. Hangeng's contract was done according to the guidelines too, and the court even acknowledged it according to the judgment document, but SM still lost the lawsuit.
So it really is unfair to SM because even after drafting the contract according to the KFTC's guideline, the contract was still ruled unfair.
@ LadyYejin
Another difference between Korean system & American system is the trainee system. American artists sign with the label only when they somewhat establish themselves in local level after spending their "OWN" money for all the necessary training, demo CD's, promotion, hiring a manager, getting gigs etc. In Korean system, once you are selected as a company's trainee, the company will pay for everything, so the artist can only concentrate on their skills and career. There are other resources that an artist can take advantage of, like the company's connection with broadcasting companies, their knowledge in the industry etc. So the company is taking the bulk of initial investment and the risk.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteWhat is fair and what is unfair will become very subjective if there is no guidelines from the authority, what is fair to one party may not be fair to another party thats why we need legit point of reference. Majority of fans do not read the court transcript like we do, they only pay attention to news like KFTC ordered SME to modify artists contract thats about it and they don't even bother to find out the detail - of course thanks to Precious we learn a lot more, and the order from KFTC was nothing to SME.
If I remember correctly, Unfair Length of Contract (13years) & Unfair Profit Distribution were the 2 key reasons given by CJS's lawyers to file the injunction lawsuit in July 2009.
Now when we look at the court transcript, CJS totally didn't mentioned any unfair clauses in profit distribution, but they rather challenge the calculation of profit and cost, in other words it is about the execution of contract. So what happened to those claims of unfair clauses mentioned by CJS side? Still remember they made a big fuss about profit from album sales - why CJS lawyer didn't bring it up in the hearing? LOL
About unfair contract length, even though Precious has posted solid evidence which can be used to counter this claim, I will wait for his future post for earlier court transcript before i comment.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteI just saw your reply, it just my personal opinion, in Hanggeng case could it be there are very specific terms which was not covered under KFTC guideline but exist in Hanggeng's contract that caused the problem? Technicality issue? I understand KFTC itself cannot rule whether the artist contract is fair or not, it is the court make the ruling, but their guideline will be served as Point of Reference from expert in court.
@ karenteh
ReplyDeleteTo summarize Hangeng's case, it was the combination of the breach of penalty clause, lengthy term and low profit distribution that was ruled unfair.
Out of the 3 clauses listed above, TVXQ has much better profit distribution than Hangeng's, but the other two clauses are identical. KFTC does not provide guideline for the profit distribution, which make sense since every contract and situation is different, so it would be almost impossible to set a guideline for that.
TVXQ case is going to be different because of all the publicity it already created, and much different circumstances than Hangeng's. Many say it's 50/50.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link to the court hearing on May 2010... it was very interesting, but now it makes me curious to the court ruling. I have one by DNBN (most likely done by Inklette, but I haven't checked again) and in that one it almost seem like the judge was heavily JYJ sided, while the hearing translation (and I cross checked with tohosomnia's summarized version) both agreed that SM's lawyer did a much better job than JYJ's. I'd have to look around for the original file.
And yes, Inklette did the translation of the original ruling, Tohosomnia also posted it, this was all done in Oct-Nov 2009, and I read and re-read until my head spin and the ruling actually was very clear that the contract WASN'T VOIDED. SM was just ordered not to interfere with JYJ's independent activity outside TVXQ. The judge and the court recognizes that to continue their activity as TVXQ, the three must negotiate with SM.
I wonder how the majority of this fanbase missed such a blatant order...
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteBecause majority of the fans never bothered to read the actual judgment, but just believed what fed to them. It's exactly the same with the recent court rulings.
@precious
ReplyDeleteDon't forget fanfics... you can never forget how reliable those fanfics are --___--"
In all seriousness, I doubt even if they do, they can understand... they already have their thick glasses on and it will be hard to change that paradigm.
@precious:
ReplyDeleteSorry, forgot to ask.
In the translation of the court hearing in May JYJ's lawyer said that Kim Young Min was jailed due to the suit that WS+ filed against them.
Is there another meaning to the word 'jailed' in this particular case, because last I checked, KYM was never sentenced and the charge was dropped.
PS. do you happen to have legal documents on that particular ruling?
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteKYM was investigated by the DA for the lawsuit, and I guess the translation used "jail" to describe the event on purpose. I highly doubt JYJ's lawyer used the term "jailed" either. KYM was sent to the DA's office for the investigation, that was it.
I don't have access to the actual document for that case. It's not like SM throws around legal documents to the fans. :)
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteFanfics LOL...
Let's not be too harsh on some fans. Sometimes it takes a while for people to break out of the mold and realize the truth. :)
@Precious
ReplyDeleteDang... I sometimes hope I can just walk into SM building and leave with a legal transcript for me to dissect...
Knowing them, it must be hidden somewhere in their dungeons, guarded by a giant three headed dog that never sleeps...
And yes, I am too harsh sometimes to a lot of people, I apologize... hope they can start to learn for themselves like we all did, thanks again ^___^
pls tell me who is lying the truth?SM or JYJ?I feel sympathy for yunho and changmin T_T
ReplyDelete@cutedevil.0912
ReplyDeleteidk who is lying about the truth ( because the truth what i believed was different with other people... maybe. and i proud with what I believe). I just know Yunho and Changmin didnt do anything wrong by stay in SM. until now i didnt see Homin betraying everyone. Homin still in their place from the start as TVXQ Member and work under SM (from debut until now).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@cutedevil.0912
ReplyDeleteWho knows? For me, it's not a matter of who betrayed who, who's the bigger liar, and who's telling the truth.
For me, no matter what happened in 2009 between the 5, NOBODY deserves the bashing that HoMin receive, NOBODY deserves blind hatred that SM received, and NOBODY deserves the prejudice and constant insult they (and SMtown) received after the whole lawsuit started.
I personally just want that to stop. I am trying to understand the facts so I won't be a blind fan that just nod my head and pass the info I heard from another fan just because s/he is an admin of the biggest TVXQ fansite.
@Hyeonmu :do you know when the lawsuit will start again?
ReplyDelete@ cutedevil.0912
ReplyDeleteNext session is going to be in the middle of April with SM Japan's Nam Soyoung as the witness.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteI just realized that Nam Soyoung is the CEO of SM Entertainment Japan, one of the Directors of SM Entertainment. So far I have seen nothing but complete dedication by SM by actually bringing in their high ranked people to testify. I do hope that one day we can see JYJ testifying just so we get official statements from both sides instead of rumors and uncertainties.
Also, I saw that SM Japan was actually established in 2001, so does that mean it is actually SM Japan that manages TVXQ while AVEX acts as their label? Any info is highly appreciated, thanks!
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteInitially, Avex was handling everything including TVXQ's management, but now SM Japan is managing TVXQ and Avex is just a distributor.
@Precious
ReplyDeletei wonder if this will affect their Japanese works? Personally I love Avex's music more than SM's, I've known TVXQ earlier but it's their Jpop works that got me into them :(
wait a minute.. dear the one who posted this.. don't you think that you already skipped/cut too many parts? you should post the whole translations.. not the edited one..
ReplyDelete@ lapis.lazuli
ReplyDeleteAbout that, I don't know. I would think SM is aware of the popularity of the TVXQ's Japanese work, so I would think they don't want to deviate too much from it. We'll have to see what kind of musical direction they'll take in the future.
@ ieYzdaniel
I already stated that this one is a summary, and wrote that I'll post the full version once it's available. BTW, this is the FULL TRANSLATION of the summary that was posted on 2paradise, so I didn't skip/edit anything. I even provided the link to the original document.
@ ieYzdaniel
ReplyDeletei wish that you have said the same thing to those sites which posted two colorful lines and called it '' the last hearing session''
Good work! Except....WHY DID YOU OMIT INFORMATION? WHY ARE YOU MAKING IT SEEM LIKE SM DID TREAT JYJ FAIRLY? WHERE IS THE TRUTH?? Read: http://thejyjfiles.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/0311-court-hearing-comparison-copy.png
ReplyDelete@ Too_Tool2talk
ReplyDeleteLOL, did you guys decide to take turns in questioning the translation? I already stated that I will provide the full version in the future. There aren't that many out there yet, and I like reading a few of them to check the consistency before choosing the ones to translate.
JFYI, the translation from the link you provided is not the full version either. They just tacked on the portions that they "think" is advantageous to JYJ. It looks like they used part of my translation without crediting me properly.
I recommend everyone to go visit that jyjfiles site and read that translation and analysis too.
@ Too_Tool2talk
ReplyDelete=_= are we playing games?
dude this is SM's witness so of course they will state info that support SM ... common sense.
and please stop stealing others translation and adding a summery and analysis and call it the full translation lol
At least this site provides relabel translations with giving links to the original sources and not only translating it.
@Too_Tool2talk WHERE IS THE TRUTH??
ReplyDelete1) Capslock off please.
2) The truth is somewhere between here and there.
3) But still I'm a bit skeptical of thejyjfiles, since omfg, they've just moderated and eliminated some of my comments on that very same article. Seriously how can I take jyj fans seriously.
Well, the only thing I can be sure about what was revealed in this hearing is that: Yoochun doesn't know how to manage his finances xD
@ Jessica
ReplyDeleteWhat? Truth is between here and there? No way!!! This blog is the only truth!!! (j/k LOL)
All the kidding aside, I have no issues with the fans reading the posts from the other side, and that's why I don't delete comments with links to them. People who believe them will believe them no matter what and I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince them, but those who are objective with logical mind will read both and determine on their own who makes more sense. I'm not going to actively promote them though. :) Maybe I should just for the heck of it. LOL
i didn't know they came out with this and had once again lifted the translation from this site without permission for their own use. the first time they did this for the 6.25 Meeting translation my mind was boggled as to why a supposedly credible blog would do this, but this second time i think it's just shameless. if they had the correct transcript at hand in the first place then why did they let the summary versions that came out right after the hearing circulate instead? because "length does not equal credibility"?? well short colorful summaries doesn't either.
ReplyDeleteand anyway, to accuse another site of omitting certain parts to suit their purpose is highly hypocritical because they do the exact same thing. there are many parts in 2Paradise's version that were not included in JYJ side's. why? because anything that comes out that directly conflict with JYJ claims are not relevant?? and if those questioning this translation had bothered to actually read everything, it has been stated that this is NOT the full 2-hour transcript; this is a summarized transcript .
it's always best to read on both sides, no matter what your stand is. question everything you read and hear. it's not that hard. be a filter, not a sponge!!
@Too_Tool2talk : lol you should tell your "truth" site to stop stealling and modified the translations that precious had done
ReplyDelete@Jessica
ReplyDelete3) they did? but this blog is the only site allowed to act shady!
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteNah, false alarm. They did end putting up my comments, but why the moderation in the first place? grrr
I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't too bashed. But that probably was because the batshit insane fans where all breeding in the last post about how HoMin are dirty filthy liars.
I cannot fathom how some (most?) jyj fans don't find terribly unclassy the theft of translations, and horribly insulting to their own intelligence those "helpful" right columns complete with color-coding and emoticons. It all seems so desperate.
Haha, after I found out about the new post on a certain site I thought it might be nice to come back here and as expected the discussion already started. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe JYJfiles handling of that hearing indeed seems so desparate, they steal other’s translations, accuse them to omit information while they moderate and omit the information intentionally on grand scale and last but not least they provide their readers a helpful right column to “help” them what to think about several points. Not to mention that said right column is full of nonsense (which the author of the article must know, since I think she read the summary’s full translation) and they even choose to rather believe a nameless song than a wittness in a legal court hearing. How desperate can people be?
But nonetheless I have a question to Precious. They say that JYJ “were so short on money that they had to ask for these meager advances”. Even though everyone with a right mind knows why they probably were short on money do you know by any chance if HoMin asked for such an advance as well? Actually I don’t think so but it is an interesting question, though. I’m not sure if there are any information about that but if so, could you tell me, please? =)
ReplyDeleteAnd another question, you mentioned somewhere above that JYJ fans don’t like to attend court hearings anymore cuz there are coming facts to light which are not in favour of their oppas, but how could they know about the infamous incident when the whole court room burst into laughter? This was the very first thing spread after the hearing…
I'm sorry... I LOL'd when I saw @ieYzdaniel and @Too_Tool2talk's comment...
ReplyDeletePrecious posted this on March 17, a week ago... and they just comment now...
Why? Did someone else who also DIDN'T ATTEND the hearing and relied on someone else's MEMORIZATION OF A TWO HOURS HEARING finally got around into using his translation without credit and then post it on a site dedicated for SM and TVXQ (since that's all they talk about)as proof to the latest conspiracy by the non-existing HoTel girls?
They're kinda slow lately... 7 days? Wow... usually it only took them one to two days... even their summarized version of 625 that didn't credit Precious only took several hours...
I think this particular hearing was a bit hard to twist into their "SM IS TOTALLY EVIL" theory.
By the way, Precious, congratulations, you got promoted from a 'crazy delusional fangirl', into 'an SM insider', to 'a HoTel conspirator' *throws confetti*
@pfau
ReplyDeleteThose are two absolutely good questions... But I don't see how it has anything to do with the lawsuit between SM and JYJ. Neither Yunho and Changmin file a lawsuit, that means whatever the situation between them and SM is exactly that, between them and SM. That information is not likely to be disclosed since the court didn't even ask SM to reveal their contracts with their other idols.
About JYJ fans don't like to attend court hearing, that is an opinion by Precious, he might be right, he might be wrong, but it is only an opinion and should never be taken as a fact.
Besides, 'don't like' is not equal to 'refuse to attend any hearing', so there might be JYJ fans there. Since neither of us attend the hearing and I doubt they will bring a sign saying they are a JYJ fan, I doubt anyone can answer your question with 100% accuracy. ^__^
@Hyeonmu (part 1)
ReplyDeleteI will have to split my comment cuz it seems that it is too long to post and because this is my third (and fourth) comment today I think the spam filter will eat them until Precious gets them out of it. (please dear Precious post them when you have some time ^^)
Concerning the JYJ fans you’re absolutely right, it just crossed my mind and I kept thinking about it since I read Precious’ comment a few days ago. It sounds logical that some JYJ fans refuse to attend the hearing but as you can see from my question I don’t think that all of them refuse that… actually it isn’t really important anyway. :)
(part 2)
ReplyDeleteAbout the advances of course I know that these information are not disclosed and I’m only curious because I’m not sure if the two members asked for such an advance at all and if they asked I think it might be a lower amount. It is just a personal interest to understand the situation a bit better. You know, looking at the different lifestyles of the five members makes me wonder why those who drive the same car for the last few years and share an apartment don’t complain about the money but those memberst who get new cars every now and then, get a nice house for their parents and wore expensive jewellery during TVXQ days are complaining about it. So if it was like that (that the three memberst asked for a higher advance than the others) I think it is a bit… ironic to defame the company which enabled them to lead this lifestyle with the accusation it is a greedy company that keeps all the mony belonging to JYJ to themselves
@ pfau
ReplyDeleteThere's no official statement or court testimony whether HoMin took advances or not, but Yunho have been making donations to orphanage, church, retirement homes etc. along with his high school friends, providing scholarships to his high school every year for the last 6 years, made donations to Haiti and participating in many charities. so I highly doubt they took advances. It's all about money management, and we all know HoMin do not have extravagant lifestyles.
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDelete"By the way, Precious, congratulations, you got promoted from a 'crazy delusional fangirl', into 'an SM insider', to 'a HoTel conspirator' *throws confetti* "
LOLOL, I need to get a sex change, get a psych eval, get a job at SM, then brew a sinister plan to overthrow this fandom to qualify for the titles. I guess the ultimate title I'd end up would be either Yunho or Lee Sooman himself. LOL
@Precious & Hyeonmu: XDDDDDD
ReplyDeletePrecious, don't try to fool us, we know that you must be LSM! You just pretend to not know about HoMin's advances and Google translator Korean-English-Korean is your best friend. XD
Precious, thank you vr much =) im felt really grateful to u.i wan 2 share some of my POV here n it’s not related to d lawsuit =) sorry. Cz I scared I would burst….
ReplyDelete1) im wondering wat had made jyj give up their relationship with such family like friends, friends tat grown up 2gether since they r trainee and company tat gave u d position u hv nw. don they kno hw 2 appreciate? They left by claiming tat d contract is unfair, bt 13yrs of contract was agreed by all of their parents n was changed so many times. Bcz of their greed, they left, bt y can’t they left silently!both parties jyj n sm hv their own rights n wrongs.bt y jyj pulled homin 2gether by stating like they r d traitors.homin had nth 2 do wf this!can’t they appreciate wat this 2 had done 2gether wf them so hard to make d name TVXQ so successful.don they feel ashamed??homin don deserve d bashing n curse~~bcz of their own thirst of ??,they dumped tvxq, friends, best frens n company tat had grown them.
2) They once said that they had made d preparation for d worst condition. But y I kept read n listened tat they complaining this n tat on their tweets, news. Their action jz cant convince me. A celebrity is to bring happiness, bt they spread anger, sadness…wat r they doing!!! Cant they just learn fr homin?Seems like these 3 human jz good only when they r under d lead of our respective leader Jung Yun Ho. I like tvxq since 7yrs ago bcz they r talented, always happy wf each other n their healthy image. A role model I can learn fr. But nw? jyj..i hv no interested on them anymore..they failed 2 b a good artist.talented without respected personality…sorry
My heart pain bcz of the split of tvxq. my heart pain too to admit tat I don wanna kno bout jyj. My heart pain most for homin, c wat they had gone through, I RESPECT them. i am once an ot5, bt nw I don wan them back to tvxq, this will make jyj look cheaper n how SHAME they r! sorry precious T.T I said too much…jz ignore me
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteHahahahaha, amusing isn't it? First they don't really care about what you write, now every time you release a blog/translation they immediately try to discredit you... If they are confident in their own beliefs, I don't see a reason for being so paranoid...
If you are Yunho or Lee Soo Man, can I just kindly ask you to give us a 2 hour version of BUG MV already? thank you so very much :p
JYJ side is gonna have their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteHomin side is gonna have their own beliefs.
Until the day comes where they all open their mouths and tell us fans.. these things cant be the end of things and solve what we wanna know.
Although, I'm confused at certain points during this whole drama, I'll will wait until they say their final words about this..
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteThat's all good, but both sides already said what you call "final words". HoMin and SM both said that it was the cosmetics business that caused this conflict. CJS said SM is their enemy and it was SM's "slave" contract that was the problem. Oh wait, they also said it wasn't the slave contract. Why did they file the lawsuit in the first place then?
@Precious
ReplyDeletePeople who claim that they will believe nothing until the final word kind of make me laugh a little. It's like both sides have already said there final word they have both claimed there truth which is why they are in court right now to prove who's right. Homin and SM have said there side and well let's face it JYJ continue to say there's over and over again. Of course people don't believe Homin cause we all know they are being forced at gunpoint by SM to say what they want them to. That issue makes me angry you have no more proof that SM is forcing words in there mouth then you have that all the things that JYJ has said is all true. The "truth" is the final words have already been laid down in front of us but no one will know which side is actually telling the truth until all of this is over.
@ Precious
ReplyDeleteI guess we are on the opposite side of things.
This conlict did not come from the cosmetic business. From what Junsu said in an interview, JYJ thought about this FOR A YEAR before they file the lawsuit. They talked with SM about the contract and other things they wanted to know but SM wouldnt budge. It was only a given that this would happen next, a lawsuit.
What's wrong with doing individual activites? Seriously, SM are the ones blocking and limiting what they can and cant do. They want to control how big TVXQ gets, so they can stop them when they felt like it. Its like Japan by day and Korea by night for 4-5 years now.
Final words... uhmmm, bits and pieces are heard from each member til now from which many conclude from that...
@Doua
ReplyDeleteI don't think you will read my comment but I will write it anyway for those who believe 100% in what Junsu said.
The last time the contract was amended on February 2009, 6 months before the lawsuit. At the time, JYJ were already an adult. If they had so much complain for a year before the lawsuit, why JYJ signed the damned contract again? That doesn't make sense. They filed the lawsuit on July, they said they already thought about it for a year (meaning roughly 6 months before the last amendment), so WHY DID THEY SIGN THE AMENDMENT IF THEY HAD SO MUCH COMPLAIN? If you think people won't lie in interview, think again.
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ReplyDelete@Doua
"What's wrong with doing individual activites?" This question makes me confuse. SME already planned so that every TVXQ members had individual activities. So what do you mean by the question?
I believe that SME let their artists to do their own things if they discussed it with SME. Stephanie CSJH has her own activities as ballerina. Doesn't that enough prove that SME won't restrain their artists? JYJ only need to talk.
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ReplyDelete@Doua
"They want to control how big TVXQ gets, so they can stop them when they felt like it."
Doesn't make sense. SME wants TVXQ to be as big as possible, so SME can have a lot of money & reputation (as a company who always produce successful artists) to attract new talented artists & trainees. SME doesn't want TVXQ to break up because they are big, so I'm sure that if JYJ had talked to SME about their demands, SME will try its best to comply. Think carefully, what company in the right mind to stop/take out their best product? Sorry, in my opinion, SME doesn't seem to me as a dumb company who doesn't know what it's doing. SME's success isn't because of luck.
@Doua
ReplyDeleteNow a question to you & those who have similar stand (since I'm sure there will be someone in JYJ stand who continu to read this blog).
Do you believe that Yunho lied in knee-drop-guru that he didn't know that JYJ would filed a lawsuit? Do you believe that Yunho lied in strong heart about his 'thumb up ' habit? If you believe a great person like Yunho (who spent most of his money to charity quietly) can lie in public, why can't you believe that JYJ (who obstructed their supposedly brother comeback & never even stopped their fans for bashing Homin, the supposed brother) PROBABLY LIE to gain support from their fans? JYJ keep contradicting themselves & JYJ stand never thought of the possibility that MAYBE JYJ are lying. Well, I guess you never thought the possibility since you believe they are an angel who won't lie to their fans.
Signing that admendment.. well maybe they had enough of SM's lies to change for the better.. SM maybe didnt want to comply to any changes JYJ wanted after that.. so with enough wasted time and effort, JYJ decided to leave instead.
ReplyDeleteWho knows, could of been SM or JYJ's fault.. we will never really know.
The Stephaine thingy.. Sorry but CSJH was at the end of their career thats why she's able to do those things now. Is not like they were at the top and she's doing her own thing. And TVXQ is not like any of SM's groups.. They have more loads of works and traveling than any of those artist to be able to compare each other. TVXQ has less freedom from my perspective.
Also, SM had planned their solo activities.. did they have a choice??? i heard before JYJ left Junsu was supposed to be part of SM ballads group.. that solo work?? also, sm denied many oopportunities TVXQ and many other artists take advantage of chances other people might had offer them... for example, i heard mozart wanted junsu but sm didnt let them talk to junsu... they also denied/rejected many offers from china for hangeng... what else, there could of been some many other ones too. No freedom to choose or what, now they let SNSD or SUJU or Shinee act, sing, or do musical whenever they want.. WOW, but was TVXQ the excluded ones.. not until this lawsuit happened that Homin got solo work..
SM used their products and maxed their potential profit until it gets old and useless then they throw it out. If thats whats u called business they yes.. but TVXQ are not just product such as objects.. they are human beings...they have lifes too. give them a freaken break!!!
I know all artists lies to their fans to certain points. I know Yunho know they were gonna file the lawsuit. Seriously, you think JYJ would leave without telling Homin.. NOPE!! 7-9 years as friends, they owe it to them to tell them. So, i believe it my heart they told homin. They may just have different opinions thats why homin stayed and jyj left.
ReplyDelete@Doua:You are assuming too much
ReplyDelete- About CSJH, how do you know they were at the end of their career?
- About DBSK' schedule, if you dont reliaze, you are comparing between 5 people who worked both in Korean & Japan market to SNSD, Suju, SHINee who mostly have activities in Korean only. Suju just have some insignificant activities in Japan. SNSD has just made debuted in Japan, but they dont live officially in Japan like DBSK did.
- About SM Ballad, just one project SM planed for Junsu. Who ever say it was included in Junsu's solo plan?
- SNSD & Suju both dont have much activites overseas like DBSK did in Japan market. They also have large numbers of members -> more opportunities to have solo works.
(cont)
ReplyDelete- HoMin's solo work in the past, in my opinion, was just tempory plans when DBSK activities were suddenly halted
- About Lies issues, "I know Yunho know were gonna file the lawsuit". Are you trying to assume too much? Where are evidences to prove Yunho know about the law suit? In my opinions, probably, he knew about comestic business, like his farther always said. He may knew about JYJ having problems with SM and they wanted to change. But going to law suit, the highest way to solve the conflict, was probabltly out of his expectation. Same case with KARA's leader, Guyri.
i have always been a silent reader but i guess i have to speak up now becuz its really upsetting to see people calling yunho, whom have all along been unchanging and whom is a man of integrity, a liar.
ReplyDelete@doua look what you have said and think carefully again. quoted from you yourself " well maybe they had enough of SM's lies to change for the better.. SM maybe didnt want to comply to any changes JYJ wanted after that.. " and "Who knows, could of been SM or JYJ's fault.. we will never really know.".
everything's a "maybe" and "who knows". so you said it yourself, you dun know anything so why are you accusing yunho a liar? and again you said "i know... i know", everything is based on what you think. unless you have telepathic abilities and can read yunho's mind(i wish i can do that lol), please refrain from assuming what is in his head.
and again and again you go on and contradict yourself saying all artists lie, so if yunho lies, so can JYJ. why are you fans from the other side so bend on just accusing yunho of being the liar? its really frustrates me to no end that such double standards exist in this fandom. i admit there are hurtful things said about both sides, but the last thing that i wish to hear is that of yunho being a liar, given his personality, lying in public is the last thing he will ever do.
i am sorry that i may sound hostile but i hope you can come at the people here with better facts since we all know, the people here believe only in facts and evidences(that precious has all along so kindly provided)
@precious thanks for all your hardwork. i never got to say how much i appreciate all the stuff you provided here. =)
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteIt was HoMin who said the breakup was caused by the cosmetics business. It wasn't bits of things they said, it was from an official signed statement released to the public. CJS filed a lawsuit blaming SM & the contract, so I don't know what "final" words you are waiting for. They are clearly on the opposite end of things, no question about it.
Of course CJS won't tell HoMin about the lawsuit until it happens. Once they decide to file a lawsuit on their own, there's no reason for them to tell HoMin about it. HoMin obviously decided to stay and at that point, they'd proceed the lawsuit in secrecy.
If 7-9 yrs of friendship mattered as you said, CJS owed HoMin to either stay together or leave together instead of filing a lawsuit separately. According to 6.25 meeting, CJS's parents claim that they agreed to to exactly that, stay or leave together, but if that's the case, why did they file the lawsuit separately? Their statements lack consistency. I guess for you, as long as CJS tell HoMin about the lawsuit, it's ok to break TVXQ that they built together.
@ zcloudz
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you like what you see here. Thank you for the kind words. :)
@ Doua
Also, as others have pointed out, your claims are full of assumptions, everything's backed with "maybe"s, "I think"s, and "In my heart I believe"s. Take those out and see if anything you said have any proof to back them up.
BTW, I'm sorry, but SM would benefit the most aside from the members themselves from TVXQ's growth. Your claim that SM would limit TVXQ does not make sense at all.
I wasnt going to be bias but i guess when your own the Homin's side you tend to not take in or consider what the JYJ's side has to say, vice versa. But do you think Homin are assuming that JYJ left because they were money-hungry people and affected by early success/fame when they were younger as they claim on that show. Did JYJ actually say, we left for money and wanted more fame.. Do you guys know that for sure or you assuming these things?
ReplyDeleteReading these things of you guys officially side.. what are your true feeling about JYJ now? Are traitors, money-hungry, or liars in your eyes??
Proof.. are they lying everywhere now for us read??? need i say it.
"maybe and if" are used because i didnt think i had to pull out straight facts when expressing my thoughts.
SUJU, SNSD, & Shinee are just in the beggining of things. Seriously, You dont agree on how they were treated more differently than TVXQ... TVXQ are basically two total different human being in Japan and Korea. "Double Life" managing a daily career in both country.. eat, sleep, talk, and live there do; half in japan and half in korea... do any other artist in SM do that..??
CSJH is at the end of their careers. pointless, if they were to come back, and like SM will care about them now, even back then they didnt... what makes you think they would now when they have snsd and fx.
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteI don't know what HoMin's actual thoughts towards CJS are. I only said that they released a statement implicating the cosmetics business as the cause of the conflict, and that is a fact that actually happened. If I made any assumptions, I made them based on the actual events and evidences. If you actually read my posts, then you'll see that.
I am not even sure if you know what you are talking about. I highly doubt anyone would consider Suju, SNSD and Shinee are in their beginning stage. Are you kidding me? They are successful artists in their own right. The circumstances have changed as well. You cannot compare K-pop during TVXQ days and its current status. SM only had BoA's success in Japan (SES didn't make it) when TVXQ went to Japan. SM was heavily relying on Avex for TVXQ's promotion and management, so TVXQ's was pushed almost as a J-Pop band. Now with current surge of K-Pop artist, SM Japan is handling everything, and also Japanese fans accepted K-Pop as it is, so everything is changed now. That's why the activities of TVXQ and other SM artists were different. Now even TVXQ's activities are different than before because of SM's direct management.
As for CJSH, SM gave them full support for their Japanese activities, but unfortunately, it just didn't work out. Meanwhile, Stephanie could pursue her own dream of being a bellerina, and SM let her do it without any problem. BTW, they are releasing a new album. If SM really didn't care about them, they would've been cut already. I was actually surprised that CJSH were still with SM after all these years.
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteBTW, most of your assumptions are based on your own "feelings" towards the members, not from any facts or evidences. There's a big difference. Go read your own comments and see if any of your claims and assumptions are based on real events that happend.
@Doua
ReplyDeleteit's funny how your first post is "Until the day comes where they all open their mouths and tell us fans.. these things cant be the end of things and solve what we wanna know." and then the very next post you say "From what Junsu said in an interview..." lol. well what about what Yunho said in his interviews and his signed statement? his words don't weigh as much as Junsu's? if you say each side will have their own beliefs then there's really no point for you to be discussing these is there? all your posts contradict your first one so enough said.
Thank you. It was a fun and good learning experience to get into these talks with you guys. I learned a bit about some portions of Homin's side but not all.. I really can't believe that this drama has really seperated TVXQ's Cassies.
ReplyDeleteFacts can be sided in either groups. JYJ's site has proofs to back them up.. Homin's site has proofs to back them up.. At the end of the day, who do you believe. I support TVXQ5!!!
I don't know if all you guys now side with only Homin and forgotten about JYJ..
But either way, my thoughts are my own opinions.. if you guys dont like it.. its up to you. TVXQ5 Forever Fighting!!
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteIt's the group that divided first, and the fans followed. It's pretty common and actually pretty natural for the fans to separate after the group splits.
BTW, it's TVXQ and JYJ. TVXQ5 is history unless they somehow miraculously decide to settle their differences and re-unite which I doubt will ever happen. Once the lawsuit is over, CJS will be officially out of TVXQ.
Uhmmm, They're not TVXQ unless its all 5 of them!!! so that just Homin right there, no same affect as TVXQ5 anymore. Seriously, thinking about it.. you're not a cassie are you more like Homin's fan huh..
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want hear from you guys when TVXQ5 miraculously comeback together. it'll be funny.. but either way.. i'l wait and support them all.
@Doua
ReplyDeletePrecious never said he was a Cassie, but he is TVXQ(HoMin)supporter. He support HoMin for what they stand for, for their belief, and he respect them... =.= sorry Precious, for some reason I found it awkward to call any male fans/supporters to be a Cassie >.<, since Cassiopeia is a female :P
Like Precious and other said, TVXQ5 is ended (for now - we will see what happen when the lawsuit end), now it TVXQ and JYJ, we don't like to mix or mention HoMin as part of JYJ nor JYJ as TVXQ. The chapter of TVXQ5 has closed and new chapter of TVXQ2 started when JYJ refuse to work with SM to continue TVXQ as 5. HoMin waited for almost 2 years for CJS to come to decision, and CJS chose to work as JYJ over TVXQ, then so be it. IF they "miraculously comeback together" as you said, then we will accept JYJ as part of TVXQ again as a new chapter in TVXQ history. But until that happen, HoMin is TVXQ now and CJS is JYJ, as simple as that. And if you want to support all 5, there is no reason why you can't support them as TVXQ (HoMin) and JYJ (CJS) as two different groups.
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteCJS will always be remember as part of TVXQ as it written in TVXQ history (chapter 1), we can't erase that history. But we currently not in chapter 1, but chapter 2 of TVXQ. HoMin have never been anything else beside TVXQ, and they been working hard as TVXQ so it rude and insensitive of you to said they not TVXQ. It like you denied their existent and their hard work for the past years to where they are right now.
Yes, TVXQ started as 5, but it doesn't always have to be 5 to be TVXQ, thing changed, people go, people stay, it not an unspeakable thing in this industry.
TVXQ chapter 3 (as TVXQ5 again) is still possible, but only if CJS work it out with SME, until then, it TVXQ chapter 2 with only HoMin.
@ Doua
ReplyDeleteThey're not TVXQ unless its all 5 of them!!!
Well, that's your opinion, but last time I checked, TVXQ's official 5th album was released by HoMin, and every media outlet refers to CJS as JYJ members and/or ex-members of TVXQ, so you can stay in your dream world, but the rest of the world will simply move on without you. Some new young TVXQ fans don't even know that they used to be 5, and most non-interested general public will start to only recognize TVXQ as a duo, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Oh BTW, new generation of Cassies only support TVXQ sans CJS.
@ Hotaru
Yeah, Cassiopeia is a woman. I wouldn't call myself a Cassie either (it feels awkward for me too) so no worries. LOL
@Doua
ReplyDeleteIf you're a true OT5 how could you have called Yunho a liar? /is sadface
Yunho and Changmin released statements for all to read, they talked on TV for all to hear.
I try to be OT5, but I cannot deny that the whole "they were gonna sue together, they knew, they knew!" basically spanned from the equivalent of an elite slumber party, inside a Church no less.
It's rumours, just rumours. Believe what you want to believe, but think, think.
Wow, I missed a lot...
ReplyDelete@Doua
Let me ask you this, what makes you, 100% sure that all JYJ's statements aren't forced unto them into someone else? Because they smile when they say it? Everyone here would admit that Jaejoong and Yoochun is a better actor than Yunho, so what makes you think their words are from the bottom of their hearts?
If they can spend ONE WHOLE YEAR smiling to the fans, saying how TVXQ will stay together, thanking LSM and KYM when they win awards when they are unhappy, can you tell me that the same thing is not happening right now?
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I have seen this argument used repeatedly by everyone to put down SM and HoMin's credibility. For every theory antis have against HoMin, I can say the same thing about JYJ.
Have you seen CJeS contract with JYJ? How can you say that their contract is better than the one they had with SM? How can you be sure that they file the lawsuit because of their own will and not being coerced by someone else? How can you know that they have always tell the truth when you are not them?
Let's face it, we're all biased, if your bias is one of the three members, you will probably join the 'SM is evil' band, you will probably eat up those posts that say HoMin lied, or they betrayed the three, or they were given exclusive individual activities, or whatever.
Then what right do you have to say that HoMin fans are wrong for thinking the exact same thing about JYJ?
And for your information, STEPHANIE INJURED HER BACK WHEN PREPARING FOR A MAJOR CONCERT IN JAPAN. This is the reason why CSJH had been on hiatus for so long, same with Amber who broke her leg. She went to America for recovery, and since she loves ballet so much, she took slow careful steps until she is able to stand on the stage again. For you to say that SM allows her individual career because CSJH is at the end of their career is... well, I don't even have a word for it.
I actually want to see what you have to say if TVXQ is reunited UNDER SM ENTERTAINMENT.
Sorry to disappoint, but unless ALL 5 MEMBERS join together to contest for the right to use TVXQ's name, then according to KIPO and KIPRIS, TVXQ belongs to SM Entertainment, not to the individual members.
Wow! I have to say that I admire you all for being so patient and level-headed with this Doua guy/girl! If it was me, I would have snapped already, LOL! And that's exactly the reason why I don't even bother to defend my stand and/or point out his/her own contradictions in his/her own comments (Keke, that sounds confusing!) Well, you guys already did that anyway! And you guys do it with styles, if I must say, LOL!!
ReplyDeleteJust want to say one quick thing! And it is a "FACT": HoMin is TVXQ from the beginning till now, and for NOW, TVXQ consists of U-Know Yunho and Max Chagmin ONLY. TVXQ is them!! You don't like that FACT? Sorry! We don't care, because it is a fact nonetheless! You resent us for supporting TVXQ only, and not JYJ? Don't worry; we couldn't care less about your resentment! Who you want to support is none of our business, and vice versa. SO, don't bother coming here to impose/force upon us your groundless beliefs, hypocrisies and nonsense. Why? Oh, once again, because we don't care!! (Phew! That was a mouthful! Not as quick as I thought after all, LOL!!!) I apologize to all my fellow TVXQ supporters for sounding so harsh, but you guys know how JYJ stans are, it irritate me a bit, keke!!
Thank you so much Precious for another great post! Really appreciate what you are doing! And please always keep your spirits up and continue on! Looking forward to your next post! Precious Jjang!! Fighting!
Having said all that, I guess I'll go back to being a silent reader now! But I'll definitely surface again every now and then just to have a good conversation with you all about our love and support for TVQ as well as about whatever Precious presents/writes about. And of course, we will never be short of antis and haters on this blog, right? So I'll definitely join in when good debates come up!
TVXQ Hwaiting!
@Doua
ReplyDeleteI find it amusing how you're attacking Homin's supporters here. Because as far as my memory goes, none of us have claimed to be Cassies here. I think you're the same as the other fans who are in denial about the whole matter. Claiming to support TVXQ5 but not standing up for the other two. Frankly speaking, I really feel frustrated when I watch Korean channels because I can see the damage JYJ did. TVN did a special on the Korean wave and TVXQ was not mentioned at all. That is how sensitive the issue is in Korea and JYJ and their fans are being self-centered about the whole matter. So if you ask me if I want them to get back together. The answer is no. I wouldn't want JYJ to tarnish the reputation that Homin have been working so hard to rebuild.
@all
ReplyDeletewell, I cant blame that the JYJ-fans are all in denial about TVXQ. Basically it's their idols that push them to be like that. At first JYJ fans all stated things like "They want to move on from TVXQ lets respect that blablabla", but then JYJ make this statement that they're still TVXQ, they're only branching out, (which is complete nonsense IMO)
and now, you can see in Jaejoong's twitter profile he writes "JYJ from 東方神起"
For me it's an insult especially after what they have talked about their company and the 7 years, but seems like public are "touched" about it lol.
ekkk. whatever happened to "moving on"? -_- it's not about denying them their history, but a person can't walk away from something and hang on to it at the same time. i need Homin to seduce me out of my annoyance *runs to the arms of BUG dance ver. mv*
ReplyDeletethey paid to Down SM and TVXQ
ReplyDeletethey cry inside. sorry for very biassssss comment. (This opinion/not fact)
JYJ from TVXQ mean JYJ ex member of TVXQ
nothing wrong. is all fact but when they said that. I found it soooooooo funny but not cute at all. O.O
should I bet? that the owner of the twitter acc is not real JYJ. They JYJ's uncapable PR.
@hendra and all
ReplyDeletePlease don't discuss JJ's new bio here because we don't want to be misunderstood as antis and please try to avoid causing fanwars. thank you.
I hope that Precious will not mind what i have said ~
@pinkdreamer88
ReplyDeletesorry, I dont want to make this blog seems bad. but lately there supposed to be a show in Indonesia, right? (but canceled)
People, and even the promotor themselves promote JYJ as "sub-unit of TVXQ". I think it's very misleading and wrong, hence when I saw the profile my brain connects to that. But as hendra said, theres nothing wrong if what he means was "JYJ ex TVXQ".... and well, it's his private twitter anyway he can write whatever he want.
I have been a silent reader for months, and today i finally realized that i can sign in to post a comment with my google account =_=
ReplyDeleteI also very sensitive about "JYJ from 東方神起".
Anyway, I'm afraid continue talking about this issue will cause fanwar. i better keep quiet then.
Just wanna thx Precious. I felt smt not right whenever i read the articles from JYJ side. Its true that the contract seems unfair, but just I don't know why that i can't convince myself to side JYJ no matter how much i love them. Whatever they said just made me doubt, i have so much questions. Ur post answered my questions, with proof. Thanks and keep up the good work! i will go back to being a silent reader since my english not that good, hope you still understand what i'm trying to say.
@lapis.lazuli
ReplyDeletei know what u mean but again... talking about it will only cause problems to this blog ...
also, talking about his bio will not make me know more about the lawsuit ^^ isn't it? the lawsuit is what matters to me ~ because it is what made YunHo and Changmin get bashed like there is no tommorrow~
@Doua
ReplyDeleteI repeat SME already planned solo activities for all of them but cancelled thanks to the lawsuit filed by JYJ. Junsu said it himself in one of Japan's magazine article (read precious blog) that they had solo activities planned for them.
I read in some articles (you can google it) that CSJH planned to make comeback this year. Singers at the end of their career make their comeback?
You ask me what I think about JYJ. They are great actors and great singers. They are better than Homin in acting, but equal with Homin in singing.
My fellow Homin supporters already say everything what I want to say to you.
About JJ twitter bio
ReplyDeleteI just have to say JJ could say he 'was' from TVXQ, but JYJ is name of a new group. To say "JYJ from 东方神起＂will create hell of troubles. A group of 3 members from a group of 2 members? Make sense? When JYJ condemn TVXQ comeback with 2 members, HoMin received tons of bashing from JYJ fans saying HoMin are not TVXQ. After 3 months JJ did this, again the so call OT5 fans already criticize HoMin. And the funny thing is I read that JYJ fans actually reminded people not to shout TVXQ in their coming concerts, no TVXQ banner is allowed at concert venue. Ironic right?
I pity JYJ fans, they are so confuse now, all because JYJ tried so hard to relay the idea that their are on new journey with The Beginning album, stated they are ex-members of TVXQ in their press release. And they gained the understanding and support from their fans that finally they are ready to cut ties with TVXQ. They did well with The Beginning album, they held showcases, they specifically told the media no TVXQ related question allow in press conference. Everybody were so happy and cheered the birth of new group called JYJ who determine to come out of the shadow of their previous group.
I understand JJ wants to continue enjoy the supports from pro OT5 fans, he has to do something from time to time to remind fans that he 'really wants to be TVXQ' or 'he really misses TVXQ'. As long as JYJ continue to gain attention and sympathy from fans, do you think he cares about the consequences of his action? I don't think so. Well JYJ fans, OT5 fans good luck to you people, this game will continue I hope you enjoy it.
@karenteh:
ReplyDeleteAgree with you, now his fans are saying he is brave, I think it was senseless and disrespectful. As long as JJ and Junsu have twitter,and they keep adding more fuel to the fire in this way, fans will support them without thinking if their actions are right and doing the things even worse. I'm afraid JYJ are enjoying this game.
Statements from fans like "It’s things like this that encourage us to continue keeping the faith"
are what JJ knows in advance he will get. I have to say it, they are very smart.
Two days ago, when I first saw the change to JJ's bio, I will say I was shocked, but then again, he did say JYJ from TVXQ, he never said JYJ is a part of TVXQ or JYJ will return to TVXQ. Considering the members of JYJ were members of TVXQ, I will say he has the right to say that, at least it means he remembers who made him the 'Kim Jaejoong' he is right now.
ReplyDeleteBut the post on JYJ3 that I read today changes everything, again (see, their fans is totally trying to sabotage their idols).
Seems like the extremist fans that proudly claimed JYJ has moved on has to think quickly to justify JJ's new bio to not lose face to the OT5 fans they have bashed for a while. So they came up with a nice article saying that JYJ from TVXQ is actually a phrase used by the 2 ex-TVXQ fansites that turned into a JYJ fansite (while still keeping TVXQ's name because they don't want to lose followers) to support their argument that TVXQ's comeback is invalid because JYJ has the right to use the name as well (again, someone apparently didn't read the injunction ruling).
Which of course will just renew the HoMin bashing and strengthening the resolve to boycott TVXQ.
I can't blame JJ for writing whatever he wants as his bio, but he should know his fans by now, even I could tell his bio will end up as something to undermine HoMin and guess what, it happened.
PS. also, by posting that article they are kinda insinuating that JJ's a liar, because they said they don't know what he meant by his new bio, but since he visited those korean fansites, he should know what the phrase signifies.
So they are saying that after giving an interview where he said he supports HoMin's comeback as TVXQ now he acknowledges the boycott that the two fansite started?
Kinda funny if you think about it, and they say we're the one bashing JYJ, they kinda do that job well on their own... ^___^
@sofly:
ReplyDeleteI don't call that smart LOL, to me it's like a childish game for childish fans. The problem is there are so many children out there, continue doing/commenting a bunch of disrespectful things/words to TVXQ and Homin.
I remember during the time TVXQ stopped all activities temporily, there've never been a word came from JYJ about TVXQ or Homin, even just in their twitt.
But right after SM announced TVXQ comeback, the whole drama "TVXQ is my everything" played by JYJ began, and I don't care about them anymore but due to the information people just mention above, it looks like the drama will continue as long as possible.
Regardless the feeling toward TVXQ is true or fake, when u already make a decision, u must follow it to the end. What I seee here is they grow tree in their garden but want the fruits from the neighbour's tree as well.
ReplyDelete@Precious: If this sounds like bashing, please delete it :) I just want to voice my thought again since it's really too much.
@ oopapi
ReplyDeleteHi, glad to hear from another "silent" reader. Welcome!!! :)
@ shanancelice
It's so obvious what's been going on. Only blind fans can't see it.
@ karenteh
I also think this has something to do with their canceled concerts, to divert the fans' attention.
Thanks for the translation job, dear. Well, i'm glad tat finali i read somethin reli in details & match wit the knowledges & experience tat i gain in my previous job. Yes, i was work in an malaysia local entertainment company for 3 yrs, although it is small & tiny compare wit SM.
ReplyDeleteMy jobscope include accounts (recording & shooting production cost), royalty (U can't imagine how complicated in calculation of royalty), preparing artiste contract (i think worldwide artiste agency or entertainment company apply almost same t & c to full-contract artiste) etc.
Of course, as i was an account study, i know tat company tax & personal tax hav to submit & pay both & separately; foreign income have to be tax again in principal country & so on.
All along the court-case, so glad tat i understand all the statement made from sm side, even their r reli unkind in artiste contract.But the fact is they r doin business but not charity, & the contract agree & sign by artiste him self + parents as well.
Well, the sad things is, i dun put hope anymore tat 3 of them can come bac, bcoz they walk too far away from 'hug' time. Human grow up & change, so they make diff choice time to time. I onli wish tat the case can be settle a.s.a.p & every1 jus go on wit their own choose life wit no regret.
@shanancelice.
ReplyDelete"...they grow tree in their garden but want the fruits from the neighbour's tree as well..." LOL, this is just too great, it doesn't sound like bashing when you are saying the truth, do not worry. About they are smart, you are right but I used that word because for me they are pretty silly, but in business they are smart, they know most of their fans are way too emotional and of course they are fighting against the EVIL, so that's why they keep feeding them with lies, they want to eat it, well it's their problem, for now, JYJ only have their fans to survive in the music business so they keep using one of the most dangerous tool for a nonsensical person: twitter. Fans love to see them with their cats and fooling around and of course they love AKTF.
In Mèxico people use this phrase: No hay mentira que dure 100 años ni tonto que se la crea
In English it's something like: There is no lie that can last 100 years neither a fool to believe it.
Someday JYJ's fans will see the truth, I keep my faith in that.
hey precious have you seen this CreBeau Cosmetics to Take Serious Legal Action Against Rumor-Spreaders.i seen it on jyj3 site and they are talking about reporting you to crebeau.they are trying to help crebeau catch people who is spreading lies. just wanted to let you know what was going on.
ReplyDelete@ Claire
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's really too late. There's no way for existing TVXQ fans to accept the 3 even if they decide to come back.
@ sofly
Yes, let's keep the faith. LOL
@ cole30
Thanks for the heads up. I saw the article. They're going to report me? Not surprised a bit, but I'm almost certain Crebeau knows about my blog already so it doesn't really change anything whether they report me or not.
finally,i had went to jyj3 site.it was sad to see what they wrote about u, precious.im sorry if we troubled you by spreading your blog.
ReplyDeleteim just frustrated with the whole drama.we all know who started spreading rumors,the rumors started all from their side.precious just help us to know more, learn more and not blinded by some lies.
crabeau wanna take action on rumor spreaders?lol..sm don even said that they want to sue the rumor spreader since they are the one facing the most lost.
how funny is this drama?it's always the bad side side that take their action 1st.then make the other side looks bad including 625meeting.
they claim that this is an anti side.lol...don they kno wat is the meaning of anti?support homin=anti?since i often went to homin's site,those sites are peace and happy.when i go to jyj's site, there are just anger and keep mentioning homin,blame them,bash them.so who are the antis?even ot5's sites are the same.nothing happen when there's jyj's post.but there will always smth when homin's news be posted.
im tired with these.just like drama,life is not always fair.bt i hope finally,the bad side will get wat they shd get by bad mouthing,bashing, spreading rumors etc.Just like karma, following as effect from cause. the truth will reveal someday(i hope).
what i hope now is jyj n those jyj's stan,pls stay away from homin.they had nothing to do with all these.just leave them alone esp jyj.those tweets,omg,they never think about the consequences of their action?if i can send a message for them,i just wanna beg them pls..pls..pls..leave homin n us alone.don keep messing up things.
thank you very much, precious.
@ Jjooyn
ReplyDeleteThanks for your concern, but I'm not really bothered since I expected to be bashed for the blog from the "other" side. I didn't know my blog would spread so fast though. I was "pleasantly" surprised by that, but it's all for the better since more people know what really happened to TVXQ.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteYeah it could be a diversion tactic, concerning the concellation of concert in Indonesia n possibly Singapore too. I pity those people who had already paid for hotel n flight for the concert in Jakarta, unlike concert ticket they can't get the refund. But then, who cares about the losses borned by the fans? They cancel 2 location but immediately add another 2 new location hmm!
For singer, one of the most profitable activities is making concert, so let see how many round of concerts they will make in a year. And I believe they just make enemy with 2 event companies, one in Indonesia and one in Singapore.
@karenteh
ReplyDeleteCanceling another 2 concerts? Last year, they canceled some of their U.S concert, aren't they? Aren't they afraid losing their credibility? If I were their fan,I would start to doubt their credibility.
@precious
Please be careful. Who knows what crazy fans can do once they get their hands on the contact of their enemy...
The Crebeau thing is really kind of funny. You can't sue someone for something they said on a blog or a twitter. That is like me saying I am gonna sue you because you called me a fathead on facebook and let's face it that would get thrown out. Most times only published works are charged for defamation unless proof of massive business loss or emotional distress can be proved. They tried to sue SM and they failed so now they are going after the fans it's all just so silly. If the lawsuit against SM was dropped which was really all about the same thing right?? Why do they think that they would win against some fans. A lot of fans will back out because they don't want to risk it but there will be some who that know it's all a way to save face for Crebeau. But just watch it will end up biting Crebeau in the butt when they have to prove all the things fans are saying are lies.
ReplyDelete@ all
ReplyDeleteI know that many of you have expressed concerns about me, and I really appreciate it, thank you. I'm not bothered by it, so let's not worry about it.
Again, I really thank you for your concern.
I cleaned up some of the comments, but I've read them all. :) If you want to contact me, just post your email address and delete it right away.
I do have to go back and change some of my comment cause laws are different in Korea and you can get in trouble for defamation on the internet but generally not for the things that these fans are spreading.
ReplyDelete@ LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteMany TVXQ fans in Korea are suspecting that this Crebeau thing is related to the next trial session. SM Japan's Nam SoYoung is going to testify about Crebeau in Japan and how the conflict began when some Japanese fans filed a complaint with Avex regarding Crebeau's business practice. CJS's lawyers were trying to prevent her from testifying. You'll read about it once I finish translating the full transcript of the last trial.
@ all
ReplyDeleteIt would be really funny if Crebeau files a lawsuit against me then the case gets dropped by the Korean DA (Deja vue?) for the lack of proper cause and/or evidence LOL. Actually it would be funnier if DA drops the case after their investigation finds everything I posted here to be true. I'll make sure to get the DA's statement of opinion and post it here. LOL
Their investigation should be really easy since they just need to follow the links I provided to read the facts. :)
well that's rich. how about all the slandering and defamation antis did and are doing on Yunho, Changmin, their fathers, SM Entertainment? i don't know whether to LOL or facepalm.
ReplyDeletethe links Precious included in his posts all lead back to their own website and Korean government agencies sites. i don't know if antis actually read these posts at all.
the next trial session should be very interesting...
I just noticed that Crebeau's claimed rumors (see: Allkpop) might be started from Homin & their fathers' signed statements. They did write about how shady the business is.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, placenta is harmful & prohibited for use in cosmetic in U.S, Japan, E.U, and Canada according to this site:
http://www cosmeticsdatabase com/ingredient.php?ingred06=704919
But it's about cow/ox placenta. I don't know about sheep placenta.
@ cat1177
ReplyDeleteThey probably didn't read any of the post. Some are just fed with the info that anything related with the cosmetics is a lie without even checking out the facts.
@ kirsch87
Their statements were released in November of 2009, but the info about Crebeau was floating around way before that. It wasn't a secret that the members of JYJ were involved in the business.
@precious
ReplyDeleteI see. I thought the rumors started after Homin & their fathers released their statements, since the time when Crebeau sued the fans is after the released statements.
Precious, I just read the comments on the other page. I'm really sad to see people act spiteful like this. But I'm glad to see that you don't bother about this whole new isseu and I noticed on other pages that this is really good PR for your blog, I was really surprised to see that most fans already know about you or/and your blog. (either in a good or in a bad way)
ReplyDeleteDo you think that this legal action thingy has something to do with the next court hearing, too? You said that some K-Cassies believe this. I do not understand what benefit CreBeau hopes for by this new lawsuit. The last one was already dropped, what is it that makes them believe they will be more successful this time? Why do they think it will help them in the lawsuit if the hunt down all critical blogs? I really don’t get it… And how did CJS’s lawyers tried to prevent Nam SoYoung from testifying? Isn’t it illegal? I’m so looking forward to the next court session and to your translations. =)
continue ...
... continue
ReplyDeleteOh and there is a thing which bothers me for a while now, not just since I read the articles about the CreBeau hunting. Just in case it happens one day that your blog needs to get shut down. Is there any other way to find you again? I really appreciate your work and I don’t want to miss it now that I got so used of having the information you provide, you know what I mean?
@ kirsch87
ReplyDeleteWell, only thing about those "rumors" were that in fact those weren't rumors, but most of them were facts.
@ pfau
Don't worry about it. It's not going to get shut down.
The 3's lawyers were pleading to the judge that Nam's testimony wasn't necessary, trying to prevent her from testifying. :)
The 3's sides were always good with playing with media, and they're constantly sending messages to the fans via tweets, news articles and interviews. I think this Crebeau thing is another one of those, but who knows what they're thinking? It feels like the whole thing is planned or for a purpose in that they're releasing that news article before the next trial when Nam is scheduled to testify about them. BTW we know who owns Crebeau, so are CJS behind this? Can't be sure, but the possibility is there.
@ Precious,
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing about cjs. Since they and some family members own 62.5% of crebeau, do you think they knew before hand about the decision to take legal action on the neitzens?
@ apooli
ReplyDeleteI'm sure a company would discuss things like this with majority owners especially when the matter is directly related to the owners. :)
LOL, are they (CJS) really stupid or they just pretend to be like that?
ReplyDeleteAbout my statement "they are very smart" (in music business)...
I have to take it back, JYJ we already know who owns that company; if they let Crebeau take serious legal action against "rumor-spreaders" (facts) then where is their noble heart?
Do not forget, they are beautiful angels.
BTW, maybe JYJ fans should sign petition for freedom of speech for Precious and others and of course another one for animals rights too, please JYJ fans do not let EVIL CREBEAU continue abusing animals and people rights, LOL. These girls are so hilarious.
Hypocrites!!
And then CJS said they want to be farmers, be careful dear oppas, refrain from having animals.
Everything falls under its own weight.
Please JYJ stop it now.
OMG I was looking for info about JYJ with this words "JYJ liars" and then I saw this awful drawing, I do not understand nothing (japanese) but the drawings say a lot.
ReplyDeletePoor JYJ, but they are so ..., I feel sorry for them but they must stop now. ¿Do you think they might tell the truth someday? I hope they do.
http://ameblo.jp/makinko-ko/entry-10740522320.html#main
Precious you can delete this post if you want, it might be inappropriate.
Sorry but I just think Changmin is suffering and he will suffer if JYJ win and then I feel nervous. Hope all this ends in a good way for both sides. I just wish JYJ could say the truth.
Thank you again for all your hard work.
Is it just me, or does anyone else is having a really strong sense of Deja Vu with the things that are happening lately? It's like '2009 part two'. From the boycott to the petition to the defamation suits to all the fan obsessiveness to protect their idols. Honestly, I feel like I am actually reliving the episode of the drama I have only read about before.
ReplyDeleteRegarding defamation... I don't really know how Korean law works, but I do know that in terms of a legal lawsuit, there are several things that the plaintiff need to prove to the court in order to make the lawsuit valid. One, they need to ensure that the statements has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN TRUTH WHATSOEVER, and two THE STATEMENT WAS GIVEN WITH A MALICIOUS INTENT.
If they do report Precious, that means the DA would have to go through all the documents he has provided and linked to legally justify that Precious has 'fabricated facts', considering so far this blog has been pretty good with linking the sources, this would not be so simple to prove.
Next, the hardest part is the 'malicious intent', this is the reason why WeShop+ and SM failed in their lawsuits, how do you prove that Precious wrote this blog with the intention to defame WeShop+? All he does is collect and translate other articles along with supplementing his own opinions.
If by reading his argument a certain public opinion is formed, then how do you calculate that it is all solely because they read his blog and not due to some other correlated events?
Libel isn't something that easy to prove, if it is, then both WeShop+ and SM wouldn't have gotten their cases thrown out of the window by the court.
Then again, everything said above is just my personal opinion, but for me, if they claim Precious to be defaming WeShop+, then I can think of another blog that has spent their time defaming Yunho and Changmin. #justsaying.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteSee the problem is in Korea anyone slandering a company or person regardless of whether the facts are true or not can be charged of a crime.In fact you can even get prison time but most only get a fine. You actually have to have the purpose to slander said person though. A blog like this that is just releasing information not stating blindness rumors would most likely not be charged. Not only that Precious has said that he is not currently residing in Korea. So the website is not based there so he could not even be charged and even if he was it would be a difficult process for them. In America unless published, libel or slander is very hard to prove because of our first amendment rights. If Precious is residing here they would not allow someone from Korea to charge him for something that is technically not illegal.
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteSue u? To be honest, I worry about ur safety (because of creepy haters) more than the scare of this blog being shut down. I believe don't scare anything because u don't do anything wrong.
As for people who always wanders around to steal ur works and put effort to edit LOL: No secret could be keep forever so "If u don't want people know about ur acts, the only way is don't do it."
@Precious
ReplyDeleteThey are so desperate until they resorted to threaten a blogger like you?
If Crebeau to sue Precious, is equal saying CJS and family to sue Precious. OMG, what have you done to make THEM trembled? LOL
If this is just another diversion act, i believe it is not meant to prevent SM witness from testifying about Crebeau incident in Japan, it is about diverting fans attention from the lawsuit. Hard core JYJ fans once commented - how can you believe testimony from SM's witness? Well is it true that giving fabricated testimony will get jail term up to 5 years in Korea? Who shall we believe, the one who dare to take a stand at court or the one who avoiding it?
@LadyYejin:
ReplyDeleteThank you for the info, I agree completely. What Precious has done is compiling information accessible from a public domain site and arriving into his on conclusion. He doesn't come up with crazy wild theories that he couldn't support or provide a link to. Not to mention the fact that he resides in a country that upholds free speech would make it even more difficult to make the lawsuit stick.
@karenteh
No matter what fans say, no matter if they are hardcore HoMin or hardcore JYJ, none of them would have any power over a testimony made in court. So what if fans doesn't believe SM's witness? They don't have to, because they are not the law.
In my own personal opinion, I think that the contract will be voided, SM will need to pay JYJ whatever amount of money they owe them according to the contract up to 2010, but there is a possibility that SM will also be granted they deposit that JYJ had to submit in 2009. Either way, this lawsuit is not about 'fraud' or 'defamation', but about deciding whether the contract is valid or not, so that's what the court will decide on.
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeletePersonally I believe that SM has a very good shot at winning this lawsuit. As you have said this is about the contract being valid. The contract as it is follows most of the set standards in Korea. That is how you base validity legally. From everything that has come out and is coming out SM has the upper hand in the situation. If worse comes to worse and JYJ does win SM won't be leaving empty anyways. JYJ will still be required to pay back all advances that were given to them that had yet to be payed off. Those don't go away just because the contract ends. Crebeau and JYJ are playing some very good diversionary tactics probably because they know the information that's ahead will not be favoring them. Like you said this lawsuit is not about fraud or defamation it's about validating a contract. Guess what you don't get to walk away from a signed contract just because you don't want to do what they say.
@karenteh
ReplyDeletePerjury is a punishable offense of up to 5 years in prison in South Korea. No one with that much to lose would lie on the stand. Also considering the diversionary tactics that Crebeau is playing you know what this lady s gonna say will not be good for them.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteIf we are to trust the information we have received so far, the complaint was first brought in by Japanese fans, through AVEX, which means there will be some definitive proof. I doubt that a company like AVEX and SM would miss their due dilligence in terms of their artists' image when they receive a complaint from fans. The next witness is also the CEO of SM Japan, which means she will have knowledge about TVXQ's activity in Japan, along with every neccessary detail regarding their work, their agreement with AVEX, even how the whole system works.
All I can say about the whole situation is this, if they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear. Considering SM has put their top people on the stand, I see that at least they show commitment to the proccess.
In regards of the result of the lawsuit, even if the contract is considered valid, the most JYJ must do is finish the remaining of their contract after it is reduced as FTC ordered. But considering the fact that SM must have incur losses due to TVXQ's hiatus in 2010 (especially if it is proven that JYJ's side never even tried to negotiate with SM), not only the advances, but the deposit that the court ordered them to place will be rewarded to SM as well.
Again, this is all my opinion and I don't know what the future holds, but I do know that whatever ruling the court will bring, this is only a new beginning for both sides, and not the magical solution to this fandoms' problem like so many people wants to believe.
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteTechnically they only ordered them to change trainees contract lengths they voluntarily changed other artists contracts. Also according to there guidelines TVXQ contract length could be considered valid because lengthening of contracts is okay if it is due to overseas promotions which is why it was. So SM does not have to reduce the contract. SM has changed TVXQ contract in the past to fit guidelines but the latest contract extension followed guidelines despite the fact that most people would think it is a bit long. Only trainees were a part of the FTC order not there idols if they were or are shortened it would be SM's decision.
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeletePersonally I agree with most of what you said. I just had to point that out because a lot of sites have twisted the information about what the FTC actually ordered. The order had almost nothing to do with there current artist only with trainees who would have had 3 years tacked on to there contracts once they debut. What I found funny was JYJ fans were touting it as a win when the order had nothing to do with current idols.
Somebody that believe Precious，do you exactly know what happen about them？i think you don't know who is Hotel Girl in Japan.Japanese fans mislead information about JYJ and the lawsuit… that is why the biggest anti JYJ site in Japan.you can see they have done a huge damage in Japan (and korea)They are a highly organized group of HoMin fans, anti JYJ.They are not the typical troll,we used to see on International forums, they like “professional antis”.One Japanese famous blogger was found out to be a Hotel girl… they organize meetings they post misleading information about the lawsuit not only in TVXQ related blogs but also in news that had nothing to do with them.
ReplyDelete@ trye-false-951 are you trying to say that the information Precious has provided on here is false? Because he provides evidence On this blog and we can check it out for ourselves if we don't believe him. I don't know about the Japanese site but on this blog there is no misleading information. Have you read this blog or have you just left a comment without bothering to acquaint yourself with the information provided here. Why don't you pinpoint what information you think is misleading? What points aren't you happy with? Finally are you saying Precious is a hotel girl? Clarify what your saying and stop beating about the bush.
ReplyDelete@ trye-false-951
ReplyDeleteHuh??????????
@ apooli
I guess I'm not the only one who has no clue what trye-false-951 is talking about. LOL