In my previous post about DNBN explaining how the site was overridden by CJS fans, mostly Junsu's fans from Ikadong, I mentioned that some fans were taking issues with the announcement the ex-admin posted. Here's the screencap of that annoucement, transcript in Korean and translation. Those Ikadong & CJS fans used this post as an excuse to kick out the ex-admins and take over the site.
Korean Transcript:
동네방네 관리자입니다.
오늘은 유감스럽게도, 안녕하시냐는 첫 머리 인사가 나오지 않네요.이해해주실 거라 생각합니다.
7월31일 뜬 전속계약 효력정지 가처분 기사를 보고 미처 말도 안 나올 만큼 큰 충격을 받으셨을 여러분의 심정,같은 팬으로서 어느 하나 실낱 같은 감정도 뺴놓지 않고 공감하고 있습니다.저희도 뒷통수에 무어라도 맞은 것 마냥 놀랐고 지금도 당황을 금할 수 없습니다.
동네방네가 독립한 뒤 관리자로 지내면서 여러가지 일이 있었지만 물론 이것에 비할수는 없네요, 저희가 부족한 점이 많았지만 언제나 믿고 칭찬해주시는 덕택에 균형감각과 조용한 모습을 잃지 말자고 스스로 자책하고 토론하고 논의하며 노력해 왔습니다.평범한 일개 팬이었던 저희들이 팬덤엔 어지러운 일이 정말 많다는 씁쓸한 사실을 배우고 실수도 하면서,짧다면 짧은 기간 정말 많은 것을 배웠습니다. 어쨌거나 우리의 목적은 동네방네를 통해 다 함께 널리널리 동방신기를 즐기는 것이었고, 미약하나마 도움이 되어서 늘 즐거웠습니다.
사실은 드릴 말씀이 너무나 많습니다.
이미 6월 말께에 이 이야기를 접해 여러가지 갈등 상황이 발생했음을 파악하고 멤버들의 부모님,S.M.Entertainment 에 1:1 로 대화를 요청해 만남을 가졌습니다.놀란 팬분들도 계시지요?ㅜ_ㅜ 이일에 대해 말씀드리지 않은것은 물론 나중에 일이 잘 풀렸을때 저희 행동과 발언이 누가 될까 싶어 밖으로 나가지 않도록 조용히 스스로를 단속한 것이니 양해해 주실 거라 믿습니다.
저희도 이야기를 담고 있으면서 마음이 무겁고 괴로워고,수십 시간 한숨 섞인 회의 릴레이를 했고,이런 갈등이 있어 우리가 괴로워야만 한다는 사실이 밉기도 했었죠. 하지만 다른 팬분들처럼 동방신기의 건강한 존재를 바라며 그를 위한 부드러운 해결을 바라는 것은 여전합니다.
그래서 더더욱 길고 민감하며 구체적인 이야기까지 낱낱히 말씀드리기가, 지금은 어려울것 같습니다. 이 모든게 좋은 얘기들이 아니기 때문에,긍정적인 효과를 바라는 선까지만 말씀을 드리려고 합니다. 일단 이렇게 말씀드리고 구체적인 사실은 시간을 갖고 면밀하게 논의와 검토를 마친 후에 다시 고하겠습니다.
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그리고 이글을 보실 멤버,부모님들, S.M.Entertainment 에게 말씀 드립니다.
이제 여러분은 물밑 공방에서 빠져 나와 본격적인 언론 플레이와 공세에 최선을 다 하실 겁니다.순식간에 이곳은 내노라 하는 언론 플레이 최강자들의 경합장이 되고 팬들은 우왕좌왕 하겠지요.
하지만, 단 한가지는 잊지 말아주세요.
확인하셨다시피 동방신기의 존폐 여부는 논해진다는 자체만으로 엄청난 사회적 영향력을 가지고 있습니다. 그리고 이후에도 어떤 반응이 일어날지 장담할수 없습니다.절대로 이를 가볍게 생각하지 말아주세요.가볍게 생각한다면 좋은 결과를 보실수 없으리라고 장담합니다. 이일에 있어 팬들은 결코 제 삼자일 수 없으며, 어떤 작은 부정적 변화가 있을시에도 팬들은 가장 최대의 피해자입니다.
우린 항상 동방신기.
저희의 슬로건입니다.언제나 동방신기를 응원해 왔습니다.응원하고 싶습니다. 항상 같은 마음으로 해외 활동까지 적극응원해왔던 한국의 카시오페아들, 역시 패닉 상태에 빠진 바나 건너 일본의 비기스트, 그외 아시아,미주,유럽 등지에까지 수 많은 팬분들…. 모두 동방신기 하나만을 바라보고 믿어왔죠.
저희가 감히 팬 대표는 아니지만, 이미 비슷한 감정을 겪었던지라 이렇게 갈등이 표면화 되고 공방을 거치며 수 없이 상처받을 우리 팬분들이 너무나 염려 됩니다. 진실로 마음이 아픕니다.
팬들이 물밑의 계약 트러블까지 인식하지 않도록 지금까지 멤버,S.M.Entertainment(+부모님들)는 물밑에서 최선의 노력을 기울여 주셨어야 옳으며, 그걸 하지 못했다면 이제부터라도 원만한 해결을 위해 팔 다리 걷고 무조건 뛰셔야 합니다.
특히 어느 누구라도 팬을 볼모로 장난치시면 좌시하지만은 않을 겁니다. 원만한 해결을 바라는 마음으로, 또 한편으로는 차갑고 이성적인 태도로 여러분을 지켜보고 있겠습니다.
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어쩌면 저희가 팬 여러분들께 혼란을 안겨드릴지도 모릅니다.그러나 저희도 무거운 마음으로 검토하고 또 검토한 선택이자 개입입니다.
어쩌면 동방신기라는 팀을 좋아하는 이유가 제각기 다르듯,어떤 분들은 그런 저희의 의도를 전혀 새롭게 받아들일지도 모르겠습니다.’쟤들 누구를 두둔하는 거야, 무슨 목적이 있는 걸 거야.왜 나서?’ 그런 생각 하고 싶지 않아도 극단적인 개인팬분들 볼 기회가 많았던 저희는 어느 정도 씁쓸한 예상이 됩니다.
하지만, 이 상황에서 모든 사태를 균형 있게 보고 바른 판단을 하여 엇나간 것들을 바로 잡을 사람도,카시오페아와 비기스트 우리 팬들- 즉 ‘우리 자신’을 바라보고 지켜줄 사람이 단 하나 없다는 사실이 안타깝고 또 안타깝습니다. 회의를 하고 또 해봐도, 결론은 하나 밖에 나오지 않습니다.저희는 그런 역활을 자처하고 계약 당사자들을 압박하고 싶고,그럴 수 밖에 없습니다.선택지가 하나 뿐입니다.
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덧붙여, 새 글이 나오기 전까지 루머에 대한 당부를 드리고 싶습니다.
모든 부모님들께서 친절하게 맞아주셨지만,들은 것은 생각보다 더 심각한 갈등 상황이었습니다.이미 이야기가 일부 팬들에게 번진 터라,그걸 극단적 개인팬이 자기 입장에 유리하도록 글을 만들어 올렸고-즉 루머 이글루스가 속속 나타났고,그로 인해서 이미 갈등하고 있던 부모님들 사이가 더더욱 감정적 골이 깊어져 있었다는 걸 알수 있었습니다. 모든 부모님들께 그런 건 믿지 마시라 말씀을 드렸지만 자신의 자식 혹은 동생에 관한 이야기인데 어찌 보고 마음이 편안할 수 있겠습니까. 말씀 중에도 이런 이야기는 너무 억울하다-라는 식으로 약간씩 루머 언급이 있었습니다.
저희가 여러 사람을 모두 만나본 결과 처음부터 끝까지 사실로만 말짱한 이글루스는 찾아볼 수 없더군요.적당한 사실 속에 앞으로 자신들을 보호할 용도의 말이 교묘히 들어있는 것이 저희 눈에는 너무 잘 보였고,그냥 자기가 좋아하는 멤버 한 몸만 챙기면 된다 식으로 다른 멤버를 비난하는 날카로운 말들에 화가 나더군요.
루머는 갈등을 심화시킬 뿐입니다. 섣부른 추측은 하지 말아주세요.저희가 판단하기에 사실이 아닌 것들도 버젓이 돌아다니고 있어 안타깝습니다.
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구체적 입장차를 명시한 다음 글을 올리기에 앞서,많은 분들과 계속 대화할 의지를 갖고 있습니다.일이 터지고 연락 안닿는 분들이 몇분 계시는데 저희 연락처 아실테니 연락 주시길 바랍니다.
이상입니다.
긴글 읽어주셔서 감사합니다.
*본글을 변형 및 도용하지 마세요.동방신기 팬사이트 외의장소로 퍼감을 금지합니다.기자분들 기사 내실 거면 따로 연락 주세요.dnbn@dnbn.org
*팬분들께서 궁금한 점이 많으시겠지만 ㅠㅠ, 일단 저희도 계속 모니터링하며 글 쓰고 논의를 해야하기 때문에 질문은 사절합니다.양해 부탁드립니다.
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Regretfully, I cannot say a greeting today. I hope you understand.
I’m sure that all of you are in shock and lost for words after hearing the news on July 31st regarding the injunction, suspending the effect of the exclusive contract, and as fans ourselves, we can totally identify with what you are going through.
We were also caught off guard as if we were hit on the head with something, and we’re still in shock even at this time.
There were many events that happened after DNBN separated [DNBN was part of another site], but nothing compares to this.
I know we had lots of room for improvement, but thanks to your support and trust, we always worked to be objective and calm and always had discussions and evaluated ourselves. We were just mere fans, but we found out how complicated the fandom is, made mistakes, and learned a lot of things in this short period of time. Anyways, our goal was to enjoy TVXQ through DNBN, and we were always pleased that we could be of little help.
To be frank with you, I have a lot of things to talk about.
I already found out that various conflicts were brewing, and had 1:1 meetings with the parents of the members and S.M. Entertainment around the end of June. I’m sure some of you are surprised by it. The reason we never mentioned about it is to prevent our actions and words causing any trouble in case things got resolved. We were just trying to be quiet, and I hope you understand.
While keeping this among ourselves, our hearts were heavy with distress, held countless hours of meetings to discuss the matter, and hated the fact that we were suffering because of the conflicts. However, just like other fans, it doesn’t change that we want smooth resolution for the healthy existence of TVXQ.
It is going to be difficult to tell long and sensitive details because of that. Since these are not pleasant stories, we’d like to tell you just enough to have positive effect, and more detailed facts will be told after having close discussions and review for some time.
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Now, this is for the members, parents, and S.M. Entertainment who would be reading this.
Now you will leave the private discussions, and put our effort to be on offensive through media. Immediately, this place will become the battle zone for the best media players, and the fans will be confused.
However, please don’t forget this one thing.
As you are aware, the mere discussion of keeping TVXQ will cause huge social impact. We cannot foresee what kind of reaction will happen afterward. Please do not think lightly of this. I guarantee that you won’t reach good result if you don’t take this seriously. The fans surely cannot be the outsider in this, and they will be the victims if any negative change happens.
We are always TVXQ.
This is our motto. We always supported TVXQ, and we want to support them. Cassiepeias, actively supported even the overseas activities as one, Bigeasts, who are also in panic, and countless fans of Asia, America, and Europe… They supported and trusted only TVXQ.
We are not the representatives of the fans, but because we already went through the emotions, if the conflict surfaces and battled out, we are seriously worried about the fans who will get hurt. We truly feel for them.
The members and the S.M.Entertainment (+the parents) should have tried their best for the fans to not find out about the troubles regarding the contract while the issues were under the surface, and if you didn’t do that, then you should put your best effort now for the smooth resolution.
If any side tries to play game by taking fans as hostage, we won’t sit and do nothing. We wish for an amicable settlement, but on the other hand, we’ll be watching you with cool and objective eyes.
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It is possible that it is us who may be creating confusion to the fans, but we decided to get involved with heavy heart after thinking about it over and over.
Just like there are many reasons for liking TVXQ, some may take our intentions wrongly. “Why are they taking sides? They must have an agenda, why are they interfering?” We don’t want to think that way, but sadly, because we had many chances to encounter extreme individual fans, we can expect it somewhat.
It is frustrating that there’s no one to look at this crisis with balance and make a correct decision to fix what went astray, and it is again frustrating that there’s no one to protect our fans, Cassies and BigEasts. We only got one conclusion after going through many meetings. That is to voluntarily assume that role and pressure the parties involved, and we have to do it. That’s the only choice we’ve got.
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Also, we’d like to ask you regarding the rumors until new announcement is posted.
Every parents treated us kindly, but what we’ve heard about the situation was a lot more serious than what we thought. Some of these info were already spread among some fans, and some extreme individual fans already wrote articles in their favor – many egloos [blogs] with rumors started appearing, and we found out that the wounds of the parents who were already in disagreement got deeper because of those. We told every parents to not believe such things, but I’m sure they’re uncomfortable since those are about their children and brothers. They did mention a few times that some of the rumors were unfair during conversations.
After meeting many people, there wasn’t a single egloos we could find that was factual all the way. We could easily see that cleverly disguised posts to protect themselves within some facts. We were upset at sharply criticizing other members just to protect one of the favorite member.
Rumor will magnify conflicts. Please do not make a hasty speculation. It’s frustrating that some stuff that we think is not true are openly floating around.
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Before posting next announcement listing different stances in detail, we are willing to have continuous conversations with many of you. We weren't able to contact some of you after things happened, so please contact us since you have our contact info.
Thank you for reading this long post.
* Do not modify or use this post. Copying is prohibited except to other TVXQ fan sites. Reporters, please contact us if you're planning to print this dnbn@dnbn.org
* I’m sure fans have many questions ㅠㅠ, but we need to have further discussion while monitoring the situation to write posts, so we won’t take any questions. Please understand.
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So that was the post she made that got all the ex-admins in trouble with the members, I mean the infiltrators from Ikadong.
After the admin "Byul" resigned from DNBN and DNBN server was moved to the current address of dnbn.pe.kr, she kept the original dnbn.org and wrote many posts about interviews she had with the parents, her opinions about the issues, and directions for the fans to take to get the 5 back. If you know Korean, you should visit the site and read her posts, especially the interviews with the parents. I may translate some of her posts in the future. She also created a site "saveTVXQ" in an effort to get the 5 back by demanding resolution from both SM & CJS, but it didn't work out and the site is closed now and the address redirects to dnbn.org.
I think at the time that announcement was posted, they were already aware of the 6.25 meeting, and also knew the conflict started because of the cosmetics business. CJS' fans, who already received "directives" from the 6.25 meeting, and were actively spreading rumors by then, took over the site and kicked the true OT5 admins out, and we all know what happened to DNBN afterward.
So this 'rumor' they were trying to supress was the cosmetic business being the core of the conflict between SM. That they don't want the public and unknowing fans to start investigating. The directives (in the 6.25 meeting) was to spread the rumor that SM enticed Uknow and Max and to suppress or make dull (or ridiculous) the cosmetic business so that fans would buy into their story (reason-contract issues) and would lead to gain sympathy from majority of the fans.
ReplyDeleteThese Ikadong (and the people at 6.25) fans knew that if the public and fans alike would start investigating, thus would lead to doubt about their 'struggle' in the company and would not believe easily about the evil SM company.
I guess they knew that it was just a matter of time, they all need to move swiftly and quietly to TAKE OVER what is probably the most influential DBSK site there is, DNBN.
@ NoName
ReplyDeletePretty much. What you said is exactly what was told in the 6.25 meeting. If you recall, the cosmetics business and the contract were basically the two main topics of that meeting, denying the former, and emphasizing "unfairness" of the latter.
I've begin to wonder,is DNBN aware of this site,cause if they are i'd love to know what thier reactions are?Aren't they aware that no one but stans take them seriously now(about thier irrelevency)?It's funny how they talk about mending things and fixing what went astray,when they spread thier hate-filled agenda in Korea and elsewhere,they basically stirring the pot but asking to not be blamed.I'm staring to believe people on that site have no conscience,they seem like sociopaths to me,they are so selfish,they don't care who they hurt or take advantage of as long as thier purpose is served.Linke I said before they'll one day turn on each other visciously(some have started to),but watch DNBN will throw one of those three under like they did to Yunho and Changmin,make some article why they can't support,and spread thier hate again.Thier article on why they couldn't support Yunho and Changmin was stupid and suspiscious at best,it's good to find out the real reason thier real agendas.Did Ikadong always have something against Yunho or Changmin or did they start thier hate filled agendas after the 6.25-Haters Night Extravagenza?
ReplyDelete@ nicegirl221
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've heard, even some CJS fans do not like DNBN because they're basically dominated by Junsu's fans.
BTW, the post I translated above was the annoucement made by the ex-admin before the site was taken over by CJS fans, so basically, the admin was trying to keep all 5 together. Maybe I need to edit my post to clarify that.
Sorry jumped the gun abeit,cause I'm tired and can't sleep.I feel bad that"Byul"'s words got her and the ex-admins in trouble,they were doomed from the start w/the ikadong spies.It was like a jury deciding that someone was guilty without hearing them out.I wonder if any of those prople who woke up to the manipulation on that site feel remorseful for having apart in thier removal(if they did participate)?I feel like i'm reading the agenda of a cult and how some were powerlesss to stop it.Sorry I read then comment and had to reread cause i'm tired,extremely tired,have been for two days.
ReplyDelete@ nicegirl221
ReplyDeleteNo biggie. I edited the post after reading your comment to make sure the readers know this announcement was from the ex-admin, so maybe it was the edited post you read the second time. Sorry if my original post was creating confusion. :)
So everybody tried to hide the fact that the cosmetics company was the main reason why they left, instead of the contract as they keep banging on about, all the time. CJS fans never ask themselves why CJS and their parents signed the contract five times before filing the injunction and lawsuit. That the contracts became more favourable every time they resigned them. Those fans who took over DnBn did not care what happened to Yunho and Changmin as long they they got more support for CJS. Just like CJS themselves. They sacrificed the reputation of Yunho and Changmin and their families for more money and fame. Now they keep saying they are JYJ from TVXQ. Precious can you shed some light on why CJS have completely changed their stance on TVXQ? I mean last year they didn't want to be associated with TVXQ at all. Yoochun even took two stars out of cassiopea on twitter to show all their fans how they've cut the other two out and let's not forget the tattoos on their chests. Everything was about JYJ(so they said). So why now? CJS don't seem to be writing harsh and ambiguous comments on twitter about Yunho and Changmin anymore too. Now Jaejoong even sounds desperate to meet up with them. I don't believe them of course. This could be another tactic of theirs to get more sympathy from their fans. Or it could have something to do with the lawsuit and how it's progressing. Do you know what's happening with the lawsuit? I expected it to be wrapped up by now. I'm sorry Precious I have so many questions for you.
ReplyDelete@ apooli
ReplyDeleteI guess it's just natural reaction for the fans to admit that their "beloved" idols are at fault at anything. Also back then, there wasn't as much info revealed as now so many CJS fans blindly believed what was spread from the 6.25 meeting. 3 filed the lawsuit and 2 didn't, so for the fans of the 3, it must've been Yunho and Changmin's fault. 6.25 meeting and the rumors created from it were perfect excuse for those fans, and they didn't need to ask any question about the validity of those rumors.
As for CJS changing their stance, it is my opinion (and many others) that it has a lot to do with TVXQ's successful comeback because if you look at the timeline, CJS started reminding their fans about their association with TVXQ after Yunho and Changmin's comeback.
My next post is going to be brief summary of their change of stance, and you'll see how CJS changed their stance depending on the situations they were in.
@ apooli
ReplyDeleteAs for the lawsuit, I don't know what's going on. There wasn't any new development about it. I know lawsuit session between C-Jes and Avex was held in Japan as well, but that was a closed session, so we don't know what happened there either.
@Precious,
ReplyDeleteI look forward to next post. I forgot to thank you for the new post. Thank you. It might seem like old news but there are a lot of fans who still blame Yunho and Changmin for the split and so we need to keep reminding them that its not their fault, it is CJS who left and not the other way round.
@Precious
ReplyDeletethank you so much much , for the post , looking forward to ur next post
thank you so much. honestly I always checking your blog and waiting for your new post,because i enjoy reading it.and thank you for revealing the truth. and depending the boys by doing this blog. keep it up and god bless you.:)
ReplyDeleteThank you for finishing and updating:) Glad you are doing fine!
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest it is always interesting to me. Leaves me in awe not in wonderment but just how fast things change in matter of seconds.
Thanks!
I wonder how heartbreaking it must be for the old admins who had put time and effort on supporting TVXQ to have this suddenly dropped on their heads. Especially after they had to keep what they know a secret for a very long time just to keep things that could destroy the fandom spread uncontrollably.
ReplyDelete"The members and the S.M.Entertainment (+the parents) should have tried their best for the fans to not find out about the troubles regarding the contract"
This is one of the reason why 6.25 meeting bothers me so very much. No matter the reason, fans are fans. TVXQ should do what they have been doing, sharing their music, their work and their love for the fans. Legal battles is none of the fans' business. Contract issues shouldn't be any of their problem.
The members, SM Entertainment and the parents should have tried their best every way possible to resolve things behind the scenes. Having a meeting to announce a problem before the problem was official seemed too much like a maneuver to gain favor.
For me, IF they really want the fans to stick together to support TVXQ so that the five members stick together, they should have made a meeting with ALL PARENTS and SMentertainment to create a united front. 6.25 was too much, too soon, too one sided, and the damage was too severe.
Even if it was held under the best intentions, the damage was done. Things had gone way out of control and without realizing it, the people in the meeting had become hostages of their own statements.
They can't deny it happening, because there's audio proof. They can't confirm it publicly because people will start asking questions many of us has asked here. They can't resolve things with SM without risking a huge backlash from their extreme fans, and they can't really move on without taking responsibility of their actions.
I truly love Yunho's father statement: 'God and my son's conscience knows the truth of what happened'.
Whatever the reason behind their decisions and their actions, I have to say I am very glad Yunho and Changmin decided to stick to the path they believe in. They have shown no regrets, and in the end, it's all that matters because they're the ones who have to live with themselves for the rest of their lives.
BTW, Precious, welcome back, and thanks for the post ^____^
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for sharing. Waiting more from your new post. It's sad to know chat change stance since HoMin comeback. I wonder if their feelings was really true.
ReplyDelete@ Hyuonmu
ReplyDeleteYes, I can totally feel the pain of those ex-admins. They probably spent countless hours of their own time to support TVXQ and running the site, and just like that, everyone turned their backs on them and kicked them out. They were just trying to save TVXQ from breaking up, keeping the shocking facts to themselves to prevent things from going out of hand like you said.
As for the 6.25 meeting, CJS camp already made up their mind to get out of SM and didn't care if it destroys the fandom and TVXQ in my opinion. The things they talk about - blaming YH, CM & SM for the breakup, spreading lies to cover their real motives makes this obvious.
Thank you @Precious for new posts.
ReplyDeleteI love to come to this blog and read all the posts.
@precious
ReplyDeleteI think what hurts me most is the fact that everyone involved should know just how horrible fanwars and antis can be. I mean, they know that some fans can be so extreme they think it's okay to take someone's life. It didn't happen to a stranger, it actually happened to someone in their group.
They could have exercised more care to their words, heck, I'll be happy if they can man up and take responsibility for that meeting.
This has become a war of pride and arrogance IMO, each side is trying to prove they can do fine without the other... I'm just glad that Yunho and Changmin seems content and firm in their decision. The lack of self-justification or reasoning as to why they do what they did shows it.
thank you Precious for this post. im really looking forward to reading ur next post.
ReplyDeletesrry a bit of a rant here but i feel so disgusted after seeing a bunch of pple holding up Yunjae and DB5K signs right up to yunho's and changmin's faces during SMtown yesterday. especially the one with DB5K, whose owner did not hold it up until yunho came closer to the edge of the stage .
honestly pple are free to do what they want and i have nothing against OT5s but if they truly love HoMin as much as they claim then they should understand their feelings at least for now when their wounds have still not healed properly.
people might say yunho is nice and too forgiving, and i agree with that but i highly doubt yunho will be THAT forgiving when those 3's actions' did not only hurt him but also his family and friends. Yunho has always made it clear that he values his family and friends the most, and so to him, hurting them is worse than hurting him. and anyways, if all is well then u wouldnt be seeing JJ crying out at every corner that yunho and changmin are ignoring him. as for changmin, i think no words need to be said about how he feels regarding those 3.
maybe in 10-20 years it will be easier for HoMin to handle all these DB5K stuff but its too soon right now and doing this kind of thing is like rubbing salt on the wound.
to any OT5 fan here, im not gonna ask you to stop supporting all 5, but at least respect those 5 individuals' wishes and stop indirectly hurting them in such a sensitive spot. HoMin have been working extremely hard to improve and impress us, so please respect their efforts and show them ur recognition rather than rubbing the past into their faces at every chance u get.
sorry again about the rant.
@ Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteYeah, I hear you, but the problem was that those involved in that 6.25 meeting were extreme fans themselves. If any of them were going to take responsibility, they would've done it already. It's actually getting worse. It feels like they feel desperate and clinging to TVXQ fame as much as possible as a last resort or something.
If you mean the war to be the one waged between the two sides of the fans, then I agree. Both sides want to prove that they can do better. Like you said, I'm glad that YH & CM seems to be just focused on their work as TVXQ.
@ sarahM
Yup, I was lost for words when I saw that.
Some YJ fans must really believe the couplings are real and those two still have good relationship or something, otherwise, I don't know how anyone can have galls to act that way. Either that, they're just extremely selfish with total disregard to YH's feelings. Unbelievable.
@precious
ReplyDeleteYeah, right now there's a lot of hurt and hate in all the fandoms, with the GDA coming up, I can only imagine things getting worse as tension escalates.
I know I should just ignore those antis and fake fans, but it is very hard to ignore when they keep spamming and trolling TVXQ videos and articles. TVXQ fans are relatively peaceful as long as Yunho and Changmin don't get dragged to their drama. *sigh* I guess I should just try to ignore them...
@SarahM
Some OT5 are just ridiculously annoying. They are too absorbed and too in love with themselves and their theories that they refuse to listen.
They come up with every excuse under the blue sky to discredit Yunho and Changmin words, reducing their statements into lies forced to them by SM, not realizing that they're just as bad as those who call them liars and slaves and fakers.
I seriously can't respect some of them.
@Precious:
ReplyDeleteThanks Again-Evey article is an eye opener-
I dont know about this DB5K/Yunjae banner, I think I will go against popular opinion and say its not such a big deal-I am sure HoMin are exposed to a lot of their past since they are still part of the industry-its their past, it existed, it will come up-and they will move on-I am always more bothered by some OT5's double standards when it comes to supporting both-JYJ are always given priority.
@Hyeonmu:
YOu are right-This GDA business is going to get nasty real soon-People are already creating rumor that LSM is on the Jury and that's why JYJ's name is not on the GDA list, despite the fact that the list isnt out yet-Now if they really aren't, the rumor will be turned into reality by stan's and OT5's-
Btw JYJ stans are gloating on AKP that JYJ are 3rd in the list of artists with the most album sales and that too in 4 days it seems, while it took TVXQ 10 months and they are at No 2-I wonder how to check the total no of album sales for each on Gaon-Have no clue, cuz its all in Korean.
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteI agree-part of me believe's that they know that JYJ did wrong by how they treated Yunho & Changmin,but refuse to admit or process it by blaming SM.Yunho and Changmin want to move on-they blame SM,Yunho and Changmin don't want to contact/have anything to do with the others-they blame SM.Some of them never hold the other party responsible for thier actions,they don't want to admit the other party caused the rift,so SM is the easy target.They thrive on SM being the enemy in a desperate way,cause the hope and dreams of seeing them together gets slimmer everytime the other side decides it's time to have a pity party.It is hard to ignore,if people didn't drag Yunho and Changmin into this we'd be pretty happy people,heck i'd even send them a fruit basket if they left the other two alone.It sounds cruel to say this but:Super Junior and Hangeng(whom I respect for not dissing his ex-bandmates)have a better chance of performing together than TVXQ and JYJ reuniting as friends and as a band.Whatever happens i'll support Yunho and Changmin no matter what.:)
@Precious
Thank you for translating,your next article might be the longest yet with all the contradictions they make lol.
@Reema
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt in JYJ's selling power, and it's good they can do it in such a short span of time, so congratulations to them.
Although I am still torn on the technicalities of that claim considering I haven't seen the updated Hanteo sales after 18th of October, and they were still under Big Bang then.
I am really looking forward to GAON October chart... It's crazy to see the top selling artists are all related to SM, LOL.
@nicegirl221
I think most OT5 knows in their heart that there must have something happened between the five that led them to go their separate ways, but many refuse to acknowledge it because they are holding on too tightly to the 'five forever' concept. I guess they forgot that above all else, all 5 of them are human, and are young males still trying to find their way in life.
That's why SM became such a convenient scapegoat, because they refuse to acknowledge that the connection between the members might not be as 'everlasting' as they want it to be.
Personally, whatever the cause, the boys have made their decisions, and I see Yunho and Changmin living up to their words, and that's good enough for me to continue supporting them.
Nothing to do with the post rant
ReplyDeleteI really love JaeChunSu I really do, but they have disappointed me a lot with their acts and words, not so much Yoochun cause he has stick to what he said from the start, but Junsu and Jaejoong are different stories, when all this mess started they didn’t want to talk about TVXQ at all, even their activities pointed out that they wanted to leave TVXQ in their past, and now suddenly with Yunho’s and Changmin’s success they start talking about them? Is like, I don’t want to think bad about them, but their words and actions just make me doubt, I don’t want to think they are using Yunho and Changmin, but wow what else can people think with their sudden change?
In the billboard article that was paid by them it says
“As former members of the South Korean boy band TVXQ”
Official JYJ site
“New album from the ex-members of Asia’s top selling male vocal act “TVXQ” collaborates with international music superstars on global debut”
“In 2009, the trio left the band and went on to form JYJ.”
This was in 2010, before the TVXQ comeback, and now after their comeback JJ says he doesn’t want to be referred as “ex member”?
But they have being calling themselves ex member for so long, those articles where wrote by CJes/Prian, and I bet JYJ reads the articles they were going to release with their names before they do. So they saw “ex members” and said nothing.
I think what happen to JYJ is this:
“JYJ, which includes 3 main members from arguably the biggest selling male vocal group in Asia “TVXQ” has teamed up with A-list US producers Kanye West and Rodney Jerkins for their global album debut “The Beginning”. The title of the album is synonymous with their journey to date and marks a first for the group to release an English language album.” - JYJ tour site in 2010 u can no longer find the site but allkpop has an article about it which is a clearly copy past of what they said, everything is quoted http://www.allkpop.com/2010/09/jyj-announces-global-album-%E2%80%9Cthe-beginning%E2%80%9D-kanye-west-helps-on-the-production
They really thought they were the main, they really thought TVXQ would be nothing, that the only reasonable thing I can think, my heart hurts by doing so but my brain is clear about it.
And the more recent thing, JJ said he will avoid singing old TVXQ songs in the mist of Yunho and Changmin doing it, and then, he did it……….. he keeps contradicting himself, I don’t understand how his fans can keep so calm, maybe that’s why they make analysis of what he says to make sense of what oppa is saying and doing, I don’t know.
Even thought I’m a TVXQ fan now, I do love JaeChunSu, but they are making hard and hurtful to love them, after 5 years in this fandom is hard to just ignore and stop loving someone that u have look up to for so long. I do try to just not pay attention to them but is hard and very painful when their words or action always cause bash and hate towards Yunho and Changmin.
Ugh….. fandom turn from being smiles and only tears of happiness to sadness and depression.
On the bright side, TVXQ is doing amazing and the songs they have release are so freaking amazing >-< they make it worth it XD
@Precious
Thanx for the trans, i feel bad for those admins, they really tried so hard, you know, that rumor that “SM wants to divide Cassiopeia” makes no sense at all, divided fans means less money, if SM is the “evil that only cares about money and money and money” wouldn’t SM want fans to be united so they still support Yunho and Changmin and buy their merchandise?
Even ignoring the fact that JJ is/was the one with more fans in the group, is 2 against 3, of course the 3 will have more fans, so why divide them? No sense at all.
@Precious
ReplyDeletethanks for updating your blog despite your busy schedule! looking forward to your next post :)
@sarahM
urgghh tell me about it. the DB5K is just plain disrespectful. it's Yunho and Min onstage, not 5. isn't it enough that they post all over the internet that YH and CM will never be good enough for them if they're not 5 and that YH and CM are aware that they think this? they needed to shove it in Yunho's face? and some were gloating that Yunho smiled. of course he would, this is YUNHO, the guy who i saw bow to some fangirl who almost pounced on him on an airport walkalator once. i wonder why they didn't shove it in Changmin's face instead? another thing are those YJ banners. you can be delusional and ship 2 hetero guys all you want but there was that huge banner in the airport, the one they bring everywhere with YJ ps'ed together and with the words that start with "they love each other dearly" or something like that. i just felt extreme second hand embarrassment looking at it. and what would casual fans/non-fan think of Yunho when they see those images? they don't achieve anything with those except gratification for themselves. Yunho is a 25(26/27) year old guy who's said he's had girl friends for the past 10 years and that he is not gay, what do they think it makes him feel seeing his image plastered and ps'ed all over banners with another former member whom he's not in good terms with right now?
ugh i really shouldn't go to weibo anymore, it's like YJ heaven over there and it pisses me off seeing YH's magazine pictures which i love ps'ed into ridiculous images.
@cat1177:
ReplyDeleteits best to ignore the YJ stuff-It wont go away until one of them gets a GF publicly-i think the movement is deep rooted-I must confess i was hooked on once :-) but now with some sense , i just dismiss it like any other delusions fan have-sometimes it riles me up also.
The boys are doing amazing and cant wait for the coming months ....years
the 'DB5K & Yunjae' sign really broken my heart :(
ReplyDeletep/s: where is the former admin now? are they still active? i hope one day, they will come and speak out about this fandom matter from their POV
thanks precious.
@Reema
ReplyDeletegirl, even i they get a girlfriend and make it public, they will say is all PR, or that SM is forcing Yunho, or the their love is phorbiden by society so they need to hide it . and when they get married to girls they will say they did it for their parents and society but that they still meet each other to have "hot butt sex" amd cheat on their wifes.
i can totally see it
i dont like many yunjae fans, sometimes it just look like they only suppprt Yunho and Jaejoong cause of the "hot gay sex they have on a daily basis"
i swear there cant be a YunJae fan combo that after 5 words it doesnt get sexual :/
@Reema
ReplyDeletePeople who are gloating that JYJ made 3rd place in just 4 days on the chart when TVXQ took 10 months to get 2nd place have obviously forgotten that at the beginning of the year TVXQ topped the chart when their album came out and were still at the top of the chart halfway through the year. They are only 2nd now because of Super Junior.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for the new post :) As always I look forward to what you will continue to post in the future.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for the update.
Reading the former admin's announcement, I actually admire her for her careful handling of the matter at that time.
One can easily slip and take unwise action, and even with her choosing minimal intervention, people have already mistaken her intention because they were confused and upset.
@rosetta16
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it's not easy for you right now. I haven't been a fan for a long time (mid 2010) so I probably don't have the same level of love and attachment to TVXQ as many long time fans does, but I decided to stick with Yunho and Changmin because they never make me feel conflicted. I don’t have to excuse any of their action, I don’t have to justify their statements with theories that I can’t prove. They keep me energized and inspired. Any ‘grief’ I experience in this fandom never comes from them, but from others, so I am sticking around for a while, LOL
@reema
Personally, I have no problem if JYJ comes out as the highest selling artist of the year, but I am irked with the fact that (again) their fans use this as a way to diss TVXQ and SMtown. It’s almost like there’s no achievement of JYJ that is not used to put down someone else, and this is what makes me have no sympathy toward that fandom at all.
There was a great article translated by CTVXQ about Oricon chart. It spoke about how TVXQ, T-Ara and 2NE1 both seized the ‘1st place at Oricon weekly’, but with an enormous gap between them. This is why I said I will patiently wait for GAON October numbers are released, because right now, the data isn’t exactly representative ^__________^
@Hyoenmu:
ReplyDeleteExactly-I ended up having the same argument on AKP-Some think that just cuz they are at No 3, in such a short time, somehow it proves they are better than TVXQ-They have no concept of numbers and the gap that might potentially exist between these positions.
BTW I saw yesterday that KYHD was 2nd on Hanteo and sold a bunch, do you think its gone beyond 300K now?
@Reema
ReplyDeleteI saw this RT-ed on my timeline last night:
2011 Album Sales Ranking (till 1/10/2011) #1 SJ -318,669 #2 TVXQ - 233,413 #3 JYJ - 136,500 #4 Big Bang-135,630 #5 B2ST - 135,440 CR : NAVER
Hope this answers your question. ^__^
＾▽＾
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry if this has nothing to do with the post, but I just have to comment on this.
It baffles me how some Yunjae shippers take their shipping too seriously. Even after 2 years of parting ways, some fans still bring ps'ed Yunjae image to TVXQ concert? They don't even meet each other anymore.
I mean, if they still want to support both TVXQ and JYJ, they still can do it without the shipping. If you just have to ship because shipping adds the fun (for me it certainly does), why don't simply change pairing? My JaeMin is no more (*wails*) but oh well, Yuno hyung-Changmin will do XP
Is it so hard to ship JaeChun instead (and still supporting TVXQ)? I think that will certainly be easier to mind (and no photoshop needed ＾▽＾)
For me, probably because I'm also an SNSD fans, SNSD pairings always make me very grounded about shipping. For example, while I understand some male fans obtain much pleasure from TaeNy pairing and their 'intimate momens', probably because I'm a girl, I understand that their intimacy is in fact not more than sibling bond (me and my bffs do that all the time). I think male shippers actually understand this as well. Even if sometimes male-male pairing I ship act like it's very real, I will immediately remember girl-girl pairings do that also and that doesn't make them real, so I'll just spazz but never take it very seriously. For me shipping is never more than (a LOT of) fun.
I think life as fans will be a lot more happier if fans don't force their ideal relationship on their idols.
For now, yay for Yun-Yoong moment on SM NY concert! \(^o^)/ Yoona is a very, very, sweet and humble girl and she deserves a guy as amazing as Yunho, eventhough I would be more excited if YunFany or YunBoa is real XD
I like JYJ in terms of their music (although I find some of their lyrics offensive), but their actions really disappointed me. Like what the others have mentioned already, the members' stance on how they wanted to address themselves was annoying. Before, they didn't want to be associated with the name "TVXQ," but now, they want to address themselves as "from TVXQ"--> Just look at Jaejoong's Twitter profile. Then Junsu tweeted how he listened to this song from "Mirotic" album and said he didn't even recognize the song anymore and that it felt really different. Then another tweet from Jaejoong said that he didn't want anybody to sing or remake "Wasurenaide" and that it only belonged to the five members of TVXQ (this started when a singer from Taiwan [correct me if I'm wrong], who is currently signed with Avex, sang a song for his debut album that really sounded like "Wasurenaide"), and this eventually led to the CEO of Avex to shut-down his personal twitter account because hardcore JYJ fans spammed and criticized him via the said networking site. It felt like as if JYJ were exploiting the emotions of the people around them and trying to garner as much sympathy as possible. And the fans would then turn eye-blind and say, "JYJ are the real victims" etc, etc. then they would start bashing HoMin over and over again. It is so unfair for the duo.
ReplyDeleteAs for the lawsuit and how SM didn't pay the 3 members their fair share of the profit, I think people/fans definitely need to realize something. The definitely obvious one is the fact that the 3 members recently announced/showed their individually-owned penthouses/villas and revealed their costs (some mounting to $3M at least). I mean, common sense. How can they afford such lavish housing accommodations if SME didn't pay them AT ALL. I mean, I know that their albums (from "The Beginning" up to "In Heaven" and other OSTs) and showcases (concerts, musicals, TV appearances as actors, endorsements) were either sold out or received so much support, but I think it would be impossible to get that much money in short amount of time in order to afford their lavish lifestyle. They had to share the profits with other people from the production, staff, crew, back-up dancers, venue rentals and the whole nine-yards. Just for their first album alone, they definitely needed A LOT of money in order to produce it and pay their collaborators. So where would the money come from? I bet it didn't fall-off from an apple tree. I would definitely say that their starting money was actually the money they had earned as TVXQ (Just look at the percentage of how much they could get for concerts and overseas promotions, although it was divided among the 5 members. Nonetheless, it was still a lot of money). Therefore, fans can't really say that SM didn't pay them AT ALL. There may be some instances when their paychecks weren't that great, but SM still paid them. Big difference: NOT GETTING PAID AT ALL vs. GETTING PAID LESS DUE TO CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.
continued:
ReplyDeleteI bet they are also getting their money from their cosmetic business, which started all this mess. Like what the Korean DA had stated, the three owned more than 60% of the company's stocks. Now, where would the money come from, the money they used to invest in that shady company? Either they took a loan, manage to find a tree that produces leaves in the form of money, or SM actually paid them the money they deserve. Hhhhmmmm....This is just my opinion and how I see this matter. Please feel free to correct and criticize me if I'm wrong.
But right now, I just want the truth to come-out. I hate to see HoMin suffering because immature fans keep bashing them. You can see in their eyes that they are sad, disappointed and maybe angry (which is understandable). Every time I look at their pictures right now (esp. their "TONE" album), I see these emotions. They looked disappointed and sad. I know they are supposed to pose like that, but it is different when you do it as pose for a CD jacket cover and only meant "this pose is for business' purpose only" and when you show it because it is what you are truly feeling. That's why no matter what, I will keep supporting HoMin. I may not be that rich to buy every single versions of their Korean/Japanese albums, but I still try my very best to buy them and actually cheer for them. I really wish HoMin all the success in their career as a duo. I hope the bashing will also stop. HoMin are very patient, kind and very down-to-earth. They never said anything bad against the trio and they always tried to reach for them and let them know that TVXQ is still open for them. But what did the trio do? They shrugged off these efforts and didn't really care. Instead of settling the matter out of court, they just had this "I don't give a d*mn about you anymore. I'm going to sue you no matter what." What a shame.
I recently went to SMTown in NYC and SME introduced TVXQ as "The Kings of SM" and the duo floated in the venue through the use of harness. It made me really proud of them and they totally deserved to be called " The Kings of SM." Go HoMin! Go TVXQ! Always fight for the truth!
my problem with YJ shippers is that they see YH as nothing more than a sexual object, a character whom they can play around with and PS photos and write fan fics of. do they even care about Yunho the person and the artist? as a fan of this amazing man, that really frustrates me. he's not an object, he has feelings and he has a life that's separate from his being an idol. and even he had said all those things that they quote, those were from years ago, people change and things happen and feelings change. that's why spouses divorce, siblings get estranged, friends drift apart, etc. i can't help thinking that most of these hardcore shippers are either very young with no life experiences, or just really don't care about YH the person. it's quite sad actually, and i'm sad for YH that he has so-called fans like these.
ReplyDeletesorry for the off topic rant. but it's been 2 days and i'm still pissed off with those banners.
I think there is this preconceived notion that because Yunho is the way he is that anyone or anything can happen and he'll move forward. He does do that but what people don't realize that when certain things happen at a certain point one can try and put a brave face and say yes I can take this but it does not mean that it doesn't hurt him or affect him in a way.
ReplyDeleteHe might reflect on his own later when things happen, reactions don't all have to be explosive and I think people tend to forget Yunho is human overall. About the sign I found disrespectful towards him and Changmin. I understand the pairings I have no problem with that, everyone enjoys what they have but you have to be mindful of others not just of what I want and do.
I might be wrong but I loved it when changmin towards the end of KYHD nodded at Yunho like Yunho does to Changmin whenever there seems to be an uncertainty as in we can do this.
Other than that, TVXQ is doing great. They are a lot more happy now and you can tell by how they carry themselves on stage. :) Good Times.
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteI think it's not that YJ shippers don't care with Yunho's feelings.
But they genuinely think that they please Yunho by bringing those banners.
Which exactly the thing that amazes me to no end. Just how SERIOUS they take this shipping? They can't possibly REALLY believe it, right? Or do they??
waaahh waaahhh wahhh fandom is scaaaaaaa-ry.
@Blacksunshinenl:
ReplyDeleteVery true-As a huge Yunho fan , I always tend to see him as someone who is strong and can overcome anything thrown at him-I have read so many times that he is a very positive person in real life, so that's why I feel if anyone can deal with adversity its him, but at the same time I cant dismiss that if there is anyone who is most genuine in his affections and wears his heart on his sleeves and would have been hurt the most it's him-just hope that this positive streak continues in Yunho and Changmin's life and they always have a smile on their faces.
@Hikari: Trust me as a former YJ shipper and someone who knows a bunch of shippers, they still believe and in fact they are convinced that there is still something between Yunho and Jae.
@all
ReplyDeleteHello! i've been trawling through some fanvids of SMTown NY but i haven't seen any screencap or scenes of yunho seeing yj/db5k banners...
can anyone give me a link?
i'm really curious how conspicuous the banners are
and omg if it's really true these fans seriously have negative EQs.
@Hikari
ReplyDeleteyou're absolutely right...i don't understand what causes this kind of thought process at all. it's like complete withdrawal from reality. this should be a psychology course somewhere.
@Blacksunshinenl
ot5 stans don't understand at all why we're so offended with the banner. i suppose like YJ shippers they think it pleases Yunho to see it since in their minds he's AKTFing along with them. but it's more like a slap in the face. it's literally all those comments we see on youtube and elsewhere "you're great but what would be more awesome is if you were 5. AKTF, Yunho!!" condensed in one banner to rub in Yunho's face. Yunho hasn't talked about a reunion for a long time (probably because he knows himself it's not happening) and all he talks about these days are activities as a duo, "Changmin this" and "Changmin that". what he needs right now is support for the two of them.
@staceyannez
the DB5K banner i saw myself, someone took a picture of it (the person who tweeted it was pissed off at it). i think it's also on tumblr cos i remember reading the ot5 reblogs -_-
the YJ banner in the concert i haven't seen, but there's a comment on the KYHD perf on Smtown youtube page saying how she loves that Yunho was looking at the YJ banner the whole time (or something like that) which means if it was there that it was probably placed in a position where Yunho was in full view of it.
@staceyannez
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2QZFrj2K4
you can see it clearly @ abt the 3.20 mark
its the same person who wrote yunjae n DB5K on the opposite sides of the board...
shisus. i never noticed. i didn't know it was the same banner (which is good, we don't need more of these). wth.
ReplyDelete@cat1177:
ReplyDeleteactually on one side the banner said DB5K and on the other side Yunjae.
@Reema
ReplyDeleteyes haha. that's what i meant. i'm glad that it was the same banner and there isn't a separate YJ banner somewhere.
Reading her post now after all the drama that happened, I think she is quite objective in her views and has TVXQ best interest at heart. She didn’t mention or bash any members’ and their parents’ nor blaming or pressuring one side only. It must be very hard for her since she knew the conflicts exist beforehand but couldn’t say anything to protect the fans. I actually like her opinions that all the party involved should try their best to solve the conflicts or try their best to not let the fans know about or implicated in the conflicts because in the end, the innocent fans will become the victims like now.
ReplyDeleteMaybe at that time, the fans were so confused and in the stage of denial so they started to bashed the DNBN’s admins. Besides, it is much easier to manipulate the emotions and opinions of the confused fans; once the heart / emotions take over the head / logic, it would be difficult for logic to work on them. Those infiltrators from Ikadong and the instigators of the rumors are quite clever and devious to use this and made the first move.
I want to know her opinions about TVXQ and JYJ, is there any side that plays the game by taking fans as hostages now like she said? I also want to know the interviews with the members’ parents too. Precious, maybe you could consider translating those if you have time =)
Like the others have said, I want JYJ especially JJ and JS to man up, be firm in their decisions and start taking the consequences of their own actions and decisions, don’t say one thing and do another. No matter what the fans reasoned or justified their actions be it right or wrong, it’s a fact that CJS are the one who made the decision to leave SM, leave TVXQ, become JYJ and say ‘in the end it’s JYJ’. At least for now, I want them to say clearly who they are, JYJ or TVXQ coz they can’t claim to be both JYJ and TVXQ; I think it’s quite selfish and unreasonable.
It’s just my opinion, I think maybe initially CJS filed the lawsuit and made those dramas because they want to pressure and threaten SM to concede to their demand because after all CJS have the bigger fanbase and popularity; if SM relents to their demand, they might still want to comeback to TVXQ. However, SM fights back; TVXQ comeback as duo and so successfully maybe also wasn’t in their calculation. That’s why CJS tweets, words, actions are much more contradictory after TVXQ comeback. I think if CJS really firm in their decision to be JYJ, there’s no need to act like they do after TVXQ comeback.
@cat1177-lol i didnt see the earlier message that had already given you your answer.sorry
ReplyDeletebtw just saw all of TVXQ's performance in SMTOWN NYC-I think they are a class apart:) no one can match up!!
@cat1177 @reema @keigo_milk
ReplyDeleteOHMYGOD this person.
fortunately i wasn't there. or else i would have walked up to wherever she was and committed first degree murder right in front of yunho and changmin ~.~
what was she thinking????!!! that yunho would be happy to see his name being combined with the person who betrayed him 2 years ago and is still playing mindgames with fans?
this is the epitome of 'brainless'. God's hand must have slipped when she was created.
sorry for being harsh...but seriously did anyone see yunho's expression changed after catching a glimpse of the ugly cardboard (honestly it's not worth being called a banner. banners are pretty and encouraging. this one is ughhh).
lol... First degree murder ...
ReplyDeleteI'm already prepared to bring a slingshot for the DBSK fanmeet in Singapore.. Gonna shoot down any db5k boards... I am fine with OT5s and all, and even have a soft spot for JaeChun... but I just hope pple will learn to accept that DBSK is now only 2.. HoMin as moved on as DBSK and JYJ has tried to move on... It's time for fans to move on ....
@keigo_milk
ReplyDeleteoh you will go for the fanmeet??
SO LUCKY!
i live in singapore but most likely i'll be overseas in early december ):
waeeeeee
@all
ReplyDeleteAbout YunJae shippers...
A lot of them are underage, many of them are emotionally immature... Some of them haven't experienced what it feels like to love and be loved, to be in a relationship with someone else.
For them, YunJae became the ideal relationship, the perfect example of a love that shouldn't have been, they became the prime characters in how love conquers all despite all external pressure, it is the kind of love and relationship these shippers want to have.
Not all of them have been in a relationship, or knowing how to deal with one. I guess it's not easy for them to process that the perfect love isn't so perfect after all.
I think many of them fail to recognize that they aren't exactly fighting for YunJae relationship or their happiness, but they're actually trying to keep their own wishes alive, because it makes them happy.
I am sure the girl that held the banner never take into account how Yunho would feel if YunJae was never real, or how he would feel if it was real but it isn't real, or how he would feel in general having something like that shoved in his face.
She never considered what if Yunho doesn't feel the way she think he does. All she cared about was her feelings, and what she believes Yunho was feeling. She won't even stop to think 'what if I'm seeing this wrong?' True epitome of selfishness right there.
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDelete"She never considered what if Yunho doesn't feel the way she think he does. All she cared about was her feelings, and what she believes Yunho was feeling."
A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Okay, really can't help to add:
ReplyDelete"they're actually trying to keep their own wishes alive, because it makes them happy."
Easiest solution: switch OTP. Still fulfil the purpose, less hurt, no photoshop needed XD
-->still, don't bring pairing banner to concert or fanmeet orz orz orz
aren't we there for their music not for their private relationship!
I was onced a hardcore YJ fan, but I stopped about a year ago after feeling so ashamed of how brazen they are. They said birds of the same feather flock together, and I didn't want to be inferred as some kinds of an absurd shipper. All my friends are OT5, which I'm totally fine with, but at the same time, all of them are YJ fans. Everyday they go on twitter babbling about ridiculous and unproven stories they label as "YJ facts", PS-ed photos (and d*mn it, they always chose the photos where YH was effking gorgeous). For holy sake, if they are not my friends, I would have point them in the face and ask them to just shut up. They love DB5K, I know it, but their blind belief lead them go astray without them realizing, and it enraged me so much when they bashed HM fans for supporting HM while being against JYJ, or when they asked why all DB5K and YJ-related comments on SM's videos were flagged as spam. Some of them stared at me like aliens when I asked why a JYJ video could be played in a HM fan-meeting (and it turned out that the uploader posted the wrong vid, poor thing, my delusional friends really need some help. They went crazy out of joy when they saw the vid. It's common sense that such a thing would never happen, or would never be allowed to happen).
ReplyDeleteAs a used-to-be OT5 fan, I got fed up by my own fandom and idols. It was very sad, indeed.
earlier today i met up with 4 korean friends who i have known since i was back in high school (so pretty much for over 8). the four friends have just come back together from their summer trip to south korea and they told me few very interesting things about TVXQ i thought i would share here if Precious doesnt mind.
ReplyDeletefirst the 4 friends were actually the ones who introduced TVXQ (HUGE HUGE fans since TVXQ's debut) to me and the rest of our friends. the first time i got to learn about TVXQ was after one of them showed me the "balloons" mv and i looked at her like she had gone mad for obsessing over 5 grown men dressed in animal Halloween costumes :P it was only up until the comeback in 2008 that i began to like TVXQ and i got into them.
the 4 friends loved all 5 members (although 2 are micky biased, 1 is junsu's, and the last is yunho bias at certain times) and still support them individually. all 4 agree that the 5 boys are better off this way and the music direction each side has taken is more suited to their talent and image than before. now they seem them as 2 separate groups and they support them equally as that.
previously i had seen some comments here talking about how during the time when tvxq were 5, YH and CM were the least popular in the group. so i asked the girls how true this statement is.
all four especially the 2 mickey bias ones who were/are members of many tvxq fanclubs/fancafes and forums (so they knew very well about the fandome since day 1) said that that is probably one of the biggest misconceptions about yunho that is being thrown out to international fans as a way of insulting him.
one of them said whether it was 2007 or 2011 if u actually go and ask a random person in the middle of the street in Seoul to give a name of one tvxq member first name that will come out is Uknow Yunho.
she further went on to say that cassiopia has always been a HUGE fanbase and withing this fanbase each member of TVXQ has enjoyed an enormous amount of support from their own bias fans. however, when it comes to the general public the only TVXQ member they are really familiar with is Yunho, and maybe to a certain extent mickey as well, but definitely yunho. the girls agreed that this has been one of the main reasons why junsu's and jj's fans have always had a certain sensitivity to yunho.
junsu was well-known for his voice but that was only to music lovers who actually gave him a chance rather than insulted him for being a boyband member. CM at that time was very young and seemed a bit awkward, thus he wasnt really that popular but hes definitely gaining more attention now for his amazing high notes. JJ was the black sheep and the troublemaker so his image was not all that great with the public
Moreover, the fact that yunho in almost every performance(live or mv) always got the most camera time as well as in tv shows where the 5 appeared is a testimony of how popular he is. they actually told me to watch xmen vids of all 5 members to see this. there is also one xmen episode where yunho did not appear but mickey did, but pretty much nobody there paid attention to mickey and he rarely got any camera time to the point where lots of his fans complained about how the staff and celebrities on xmen only like yunho which is why he always appears on camera when hes on the show and is always teased and joked around with by the other celebs. PDs are not stupid, and they do care about ratings so its not like they are going to give more screen time to a less popular celeb while the more popular one gets less. its just that yunho was more popular and known to the average viewers than the others.
cont
cont
ReplyDeleteyunhos fan also asked few relatives at a family gathering there what they thought of what SM did to JYJ and whether they agreed with HM's decision to stay. and she said most of them did not agree with HM in the beginning becuz of the whole slave contract and rumors about extra money being paid to YH, but after seeing the comeback and watching them on shows like running man, they seemed like sweet and humble boys, so maybe there was something else that went on between the 5. she said that for those relatives to readily re-accept YH back without him having to fully clarify what happened is a big indication that general public WANTS to like yunho again. he is the only member they really knw and like of TVXQ and TVXQ itself is a major pride to koreans, so its almost like they are ready to accept any justification about YH becuz to them YH is the only identity of TVXQ that they are familiar with.
the YH fan also said that not only is yunho popular with the general public but hes also the more popular and respected member within the music industry itself. at this i told her that jj is the one with the supposedly more contacts, and she said unlike what pple think jj's contacts are very limited and were never very beneficial to tvxq. conversely yunho was able to win the respect and liking of the impo pple such as kang Hodong, yoo jae suk, and many other MCs who played a major role in promoting TVXQ on their shows. his good relationship with those MCs was vital for TVXQ to succeed.
aside from that famous senior celebs and musicians have always praised yunho in the past. they showed me one vid on youtube that was taken the year TVXQ debuted and the 5 boys were standing backstage waiting to get on stage after a really famous singer finished his song. when the singer got offstage with his band he met with TVXQ and despite the singer looking exhausted he gave yunho a hug while pretty much passing the rest of the members unnoticed. again highlighting YH being the rep of TVXQ within the inner circle of the industry. there is also another ex from the show Line Up where the MCs requested for YH and only YH to come and discuss if TVXQ can remain for longer period on the program. now i knw that was just a random show but they could have asked for the whole team to come if YH was not the popular one while JYJ are. u want ratings, so showcase the more popular ones. these are only few examples of the famous pple who like yunho, but there are many others.
so unlike what others may think, since TVXQ's debut yunho has suddenly become the face and identity of TVXQ in the whole of Asia, except for Japan where JJ's pretty looks reigned him as the beauty of TVXQ.
but then the japanese fans are more different than the korean. while it may seem that JYJ were the most popular in Japan, the recent success of TVXQ there has shown that BE has no obvious favoritism towards certain member(s). in other words, all members were equally loved but ways of expressing that love were different for each member which made pple think YH and CM were the less popular ones.
cont
it was quite interesting to hear their opinions on various things about TVXQ and JYJ. im glad that they have no problem being partial about the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteYCs fans seem to agree that YC was never the type of guy to last in a band, and they had never seen him as some1 held back by strong morals or traditions so it was expected of him to do this.
the one who was really shocked was the JS fan. that was becuz back in 2008 she heard in various fancafes that Junsus parents were trying to get Sm to sign JSs brother Junho but sm refused. shes convinced that JS got into this mess through his father and his investments. she also senses that hes getting frustrated with the current situation becuz he keeps feeling ignored and left out by YC and JJ (i actually noticed this myself too in an interview vid last week for JYJ where JS was pretty much ignored most of the time except for when JJ and YC were trying to make fun of him). so she thinks that hes gonna end up going solo sooner or later without making it official that hes leaving JYJ.
as for JJ all 4 are very annoyed with him and think hes disgracing himself and is playing a dirty game to force yh and cm to do what he wants them to do. they do believe that he misses YH and cm, and has continued forcing them, even back in 2010, to join them by showing off his wealth and supposed international status as well as getting the fans to put them under enough pressure to force them to leave sm.
but they agree that that is probab never gona happen so he should just accept that its over and face the consequences.
i hope u guys dont mind me posting this here, and i would love to knw from other koreans if this was truly the case for the fandom in korea right now
@sarahM
ReplyDeleteYou're pretty much saying what I have heard from my Korean colleagues too. In our company outing last year I told them about how much I love K-pop especially DBSK. They asked me who's my fave, I told them YH, they cheered and said that I made the right choice. They told me that the YH is the most popular among 5 and Junsu is second. Least favorite, much to my surprise is JJ :) I asked them how is that possible, considering he has such a huge worshipers all over world and fandom. They simply said: "Not in Korea." So yeah, I can relate to what you're saying.
@keigo_milk
If the tickets are sold online, my and my other 2 friends are prepared to buy and fly from Jakarta to attend the Fan Party! Crossing my fingers that it will sold through sistic too :)
@Precious
Welcome back... So looking forward to your next post ;)
@ sarahM
ReplyDeleteThat was interesting. So there are actually CJS fans who are realistic and objective. That surely is good too know. You got good friends. :)
It is true that YH is the most well known member among general public who are not into idols because of those tv shows.
However, I think most of JYJ fans are not like your friends, especially on the web. Also from what I've heard from young TVXQ fans, JYJ fans from their classes are just like the ones on the web. Older fans are not different from what I've seen as evidenced by JYJ's broadcast fiasco.
As for the popularity of each members, what your friends said are pretty much correct.
@ Trieze
ReplyDeleteThanks, I'm working on my next one. :)
@sarahM,
ReplyDeleteI've always thought Yunho was the most well known tvxq member in Korea. I think he worked more and sacrificed more for tvxq than the other members. I don't think his being a leader called for some of the things he did for tvxq. We will never know just how much he did but there is a reason why a lot of people in kpop respect Yunho. Obviously this caused a lot of jealousy in the group, because those three have such huge egos, they felt they were more talented and therefore should be more recognised than Yunho. I don't think tvxq would have been as successful as it is if Yunho was not leader amongst other things of course. I believe all five of them are talented but talent alone is not enough in the music industry, and that's where Yunho benefited them the most with his diplomatic and people skills. Those three undermined Yunho and Changmin's input into making tvxq as successful as it is for their own selfish agendas. We all know when people put you down it means they are not very confident in themselves and do it to make themselves feel better. It says more about them than the person they are undermining.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteI hope you don't mind if I write something unrelated to the article, but I really need to get this off my chest LOL
@all
I was so sick at how JYJ fans kept saying what a "genius in music" they are of how amazing is their music. I admit that they ARE talented. But being talented doesn't mean that you can create good music as well. And that's exactly what I saw in JYJ.
Everytime they released an album I tried to listen to it, thinking that maybe I get to like their music. Sadly, I must admit that there's only 1-2 songs that really get me. I thought I was just being biased so I listened to their music in a manner that "I love HoMin but trying to like JYJ too as an adult too". Yeah, mature huh? LOL
When they released Music Essay I listened to the whole album on the day of the release. I couldn't get to like any of the songs. Tried a few times, still can't like them. Then news coming out about the translations of each of the songs in there then I realized why I can't like them.
Music is a universal language -- this I believe. I can fall in love with a song with an alien language without even understand what it means. But all the songs in Music Essay were created with hate & a sole purpose to bash SME -- the company that debuted them many years ago. I was so shocked when the most controversial one, Nameless Song Part 1/ Untitled Song Part 1 was sung in each their concert after they practically promote the song as "the truth song about their lives with SME". I read the contents and could only shake my head, did they really think that they debut themselves?
When they released In Heaven, I listened to it and found it okay... after all it was created in memory of Park Yong Ha. So in the end, I think that songs that are born out of hate could never really touch me.
After Get Out was released, again I heard people praised how talented they are as song composers. I tested it on my brother who studied music in university & played all kind of instruments. I played the album in the car, and after the 4th song my brother complained! "Who is this?? It's boring and the vocal didn't match with the song's characters!"
Again, that proved my theory, why even someone like David Foster needs to collaborate with other songwriters in producing albums for his artists. Because he understands the basic: he needs to satisfy people with various taste in music instead of his own. Sadly, this is what JYJ hasn't understood at all.
@Trieze
ReplyDeletei think ur right..from what i have personally noticed it does seem like YC and JS are probably the second most well known in korea after YH
@Precious
honestly im really proud of them. in the beginning i thought they would side with JYJ for sure and bash homin so i tried to avoid talking about this with them but it was actually through them that i found out about TVXQ making a comeback this year and caught up once again on the news. i think the main reason is because those four really REALLY loved the boys since the day they debuted. and according to them, its not so much bias towards one member as it is a soft spot. they say that they love all 5 because each one of them is so different from the others and so they like them for different reasons but they do admit that the boys are no angels. those girls are about 21-22 and they have had experiences dating and living in a very multicultural country where teens are encouraged to work during high school to experience the real world and learn how to handle it. so im guessing its easier for them to accept JYJs true imperfect nature than keep living in denial about it.
@apooli
couldnt have said it better myself ^_^
@sarahM
ReplyDeletePersonally I am not Korean but I have worked in Korea and Japan during the time of there fame. The fact is that international fans can claim anything they want but Yuhno has and always will be the face of TVXQ. He is the leader he is the one that everyone knows because he is the one who has always worked the hardest to get there name out there. Even if you did not know anyone else's name you knew his. That is just a fact. Not only that but he was always favored by his industry seniors because he knew his place and to show respect for those above him and really even below him unlike as it seems his former band mates. But I do have to say Japan does not seem to be as you say. It is clear to see in Japan that they have taken the side of TVXQ. As proven by record sales. JYJ has yet to get even close to the sales of TVXQ in Japan except for The.. and that was over a year ago. The false advertising that CJeS does cannot cover that up.
Now I do have to admit I am not surprised in the slightest by Junsu being the odd man out. When I worked in Japan YC and JJ were known for being partners in partying and drinking, and people used to make father and son jokes about CM and YH because of his what it seemed to be protectiveness over the youngest member. In fact they were regularly seen together which is one of the reason's I never quite understood Yunjae. Since it seemed to many who worked with them they weren't as close as there fans seemed to think. Junsu has by far been the one left behind as the two others have continued on with there career as actors which could make him understandably upset. It's actually quite surprising because he was always a favourite in TVXQ and now as JYJ has seemed to take a backseat to the other two
@all
Also I know this has nothing to do with this but seriously. Could CJeS be any more obvious when they pay for an article. We might be able to believe that someone just decided to write an article if it wasn't for the fact that that number of selling over 300,000 records popped up right at the end. Although I guess 300,000 is better then then 350,000 that they were spreading. Honestly we all know that the record has already sold a lot but how can you claim a number that can't even be proven. As far as I know even if you add the Korean and Japanese sales together you barely get 200,000 copies sold. Sorry it's just beginning to get a little upsetting. The article about the melon awards was just silly and unneeded. They were not on the ballot cause they sold poorly in digital sales that is the truth. The melon awards is a combination of all downloads, streaming, and mobile which we all know they did quite poorly in digital sales in fact as far as I know they dropped out of the top 10 within the first two weeks. Sad but true now that the facts are out the fans need to give it a rest. SM has yet to have to pay any fines or restitution for blocking there promotional activities so it's very clear to see they had nothing to do with this get over it and grow up.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeletethe girls are korean and are only involved with the korean fanbases so the stuff i typed up about the japanese market were things we were all discussing and sharing our views on during our meet. so u probably knw more about the japanese side than me or my friends.
we actually did talk a bit about yunjae during the meetup (needed to vent out a bit more after seeing those YJ banners in smtown, and the girls did not seem very happy with JJs recent outburst). according to the YH fan, YH and JJ were initially very close, to the point where u would think that they were inseparable and used to hang out with the same group of pple. but over the years the fans in korea began to notice that YH had gradually stopped spending much time with JJ, and was, instead, spending more time with his old friends from highschool. the friend said that in the beginning the fans (especially the yunjae ones) did not pay much attention since JJ also had his own circle. But then when JJ began complaining about YH no longer spending time with him like before, the fans went ballistic over it and ended up bashing yunhos friends for causing YH and JJ to drift apart.
btw i came across the soulfighter couple talk few days ago and for the first time noticed at 53 seconds how JJ calls Homin the [odd, unsuitable couple created out of pity]. i wonder if he still thinks of it that way.. link is below for any1 interested
http(:)//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZAilHhsT_g
@LadyYejin:
ReplyDeleteThats exactly what i posted on AKP-The article was unnecessary, its inflammatory, they will get the 3000 odd responses, but its ridiculous that each and every sentence of the responders starts with f... SM, SM this SM that, but of course once brainwashed, they cant think for themselves-and subtly AKP will state at the end of every article , they sold 300k, 350K NO changes like seasons.
seriously who thought YH as the least popular members in Korea needs to get familiar with his gazillions of personal fansites. his fansites number exceeded any of other members and he's the most well known member among the public too. how on earth can he be the least popular?
ReplyDelete@Precious: welcome back, Precious. I've been waiting for this post for so long. I came here almost everyday to reread your posts or just to read comments^^, from which I knew more about our boys as well as JYJ, whom I ignored a long time ago. this admin was quite responsible indeed. she used all her courage to write this announcement, just to make DNBN members know more about the situation & have proper attitude. however, she was taken wrongly by her members and Ikadong spies used this to take control of the site. Poor her :(. anyway, thank you so much, Precious :x
ReplyDelete@fc: I think they used the huge advaces they took from SM to do the cosmetics business.
@Grace: I also got angry to know they showed a fanmade video about TVXQ5, JYJ & espcecially Jaejoong in a TVXQ's fanmeeting. HoMin seemed so touched & they were about to cry to see this. Fans also cheered YunJae & showed YJ boards in front of HoMin. Really don't know what these fans thought. How could they be so heartless?
@LadyYejin & SarahM: thank you two for letting us konw more about Japanese & Korean fandom & general knowledge about TVXQ/JYJ. I read various articles saying that a lot of Korean celebs, sunbaes & dongsaengs like and admire Yunho so much. So there's no way that Yunho is the least or second least favorite or well-known member in TVXQ. I trust & support HoMin from the start, partially because I admire their intelligence, education background & maturity. Until now, they haven't let me down.
@Trieze: I think the same as you. To be honest, I haven't listened to all of JYJ's songs, but i think they only do well in ballads. When it comes to dance or upbeat songs, they have to call HoMin or even themselves in the past masters ^^. I listened to Mission, Empty, Ayyy girl & Get Out on TV & i wondered if the performers are JYJ, two of whom were main vocalists of TVXQ. they sounded icredibly terrible. I don't believe they could publish those songs. They nearly reached music disaters for those. =))
@trieze
ReplyDeleteI'm quite sure it'll be sold on Sistic ... I'm quite worried abt not being able to get tickets though.... Nonetheless, hope I'll get to see u in Singapore ... ^^
@staceyannez
I will not miss this for the world... After all I've flown thailand n Japan to watch their concerts...all the more I have to be at this fanmeet... U won't be able to change ur plans ??
@all
ReplyDeleteTBH, YunHo was the first I noticed in TVXQ. For me, he emits this certain aura that he is down-to-earth, very respectful, kind and very leader-like. And my hunch was correct. He may look shy or seems he doesn't talk much, but he is actually very kind and concerned about the people around hum. I saw the BTS for the Lacoste photoshoot and I still get the same aura. So proud of him.
Don't even get me started with that banner from SMTown. I may have seen it when I was on the line with my friends who were trying to purchase some merchandise before the concert. I just didn't really pay attention to that banner, but if only I knew that that banner was gonna be flashed right in front of YH's face during the concert, I would've yanked-out, not just the banner, but also the owner of it and throw that person out of MSG. LOLOL.
@all
ReplyDeletei'm pissed with fans saying "AKTF cos Cassiopeia is 5 stars. two stars is not Cassie, you not Cassie! they no right for tvxq! you stfu!!" well, sorry to burst your bubble kids, but your oppa who is asking you to keep the faith, edited out 2 stars from the visible constellation of Cassiopeia:
http(:)//i43(.)tinypic(.)com/693s75.jpg
go ahead and look for it.. it's still there. Posted by your oppa proudly. *rollseyes*
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sorry, precious for being off-topic. i promise I will comment on the topic at hand soonish (need to spazz at the delight that is SUN photobook first x'D)
@girlpower: did YC post that picutre on his Twitter, or cyworld?
ReplyDeleteOkay I think I'm boiling girls !
---
Just a small notice that might be out of the topic. Recently I no more value JYJ's singing ability. I was hooked up with TVXQ initially because of JJ and CM's voices, and I always agreed that JJ and JS are some kinds of a genius in music. Still, it is not because I don't favor them anymore - I always listen to music objectively, whether I love the singers or not, but I listened to many of their recent live performances, and I realized their voices are not as good and smooth as before, not to mention the frequent voice cracks. I speculate if it was due to their habits of drinking and smoking. Whatever it is, I really felt a bit pity of them losing their original great voices.
@ Precious
ReplyDeleteI forgot to thank you on my previous posts. So, thank you for letting us know the truth. By the way, do you know when will be the next court hearing?
--------------------------------------------------
@ GRACE
Smoking and drinking are definitely one of the factors that can ruin your voice. On another note, when I saw the picture, I was really offended and upset. They always say "Always keep the faith", but look at the post? Isn't too contradicting? I may not be an official Cassie in terms of being a club member (but I know I'm a Cassie at heart), but posting something like this is just frustrating. Right now, the line "Always keep the faith" will now mean something else for me--> Always keep the faith on the current TVXQ who always uphold their dreams and always keep the faith that the truth will come out soon.
@SarahM
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing. I think your friends truly shows the stark difference between a 'TVXQ fan with a bias' and a 'biased fan of a member of TVXQ'. Having a bias doesn't mean you always take his side, but being biased will blind you of reason.
@all
In regards of Yunho's reputation, I first know the group through a Junsu fan, and she told me how she doesn't respect Yunho that much because he's somewhat a fake. Like on stage he's cool and charismatic but off stage he's bubby and warm. She said he was putting on an image of a leader, while the others can show their true colors.
When I first saw Mirotic, it was Changmin and Jaejoong that grabbed me. But after I saw their interviews, their performances and everything I could get my hands on, I can't help but having a great deal of respect for Yunho. Yes, he plays the part of a leader, but that doesn't mean he fakes any of it. He just knows how to place himself properly in any situation, and he does it genuinely.
Aside from jealousy because they think their oppas deserve more fame than Yunho, I think the reason why antis and bashers pick on Yunho is because of this image/reputation he had. Not only as a TVXQ leader, but as Jung Yunho. He's firm in his belief, upstanding in his behavior, and he's the guy women know they could bring home and have their parents approve of. If nothing was done to damage his (and Changmin's) reputation, it would be quite difficult for them to logically process their oppas their decision because the two members known for being the smart, logical and upstanding in behavior are the ones who stays behind. It won't make sense, unless Yunho and Changmin aren't as upstanding as they say they are, unless Yunho and Changmin are actually worse than their oppas in character.
I notice that this has become the mentality of a lot of extreme JYJ fans. It's almost like JYJ can't make a decision without it being someone else's fault, and TVXQ (SM) cannot do anything without it being perceived as a diss to JYJ. It's almost like they aren't secure in their own decision that they have to keep justifying it, over and over again showing just how victimized they are. They NEED to show that their oppas is better than everyone else, because if not they can't reason why they like them on the first place.
Yunho and Changmin made their decision. They are taking responsibility of their actions. They cherish the memories they had with ChunJaeSu, but they're not hung up on it that they can't move forward. I like them because I do and I can, so other people's morality, lifestyle and habits don't really matter for me, it's all about preference ^___^
@sarahM
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your & your friend's insightful view. I totally understand for Yunho as the representative of dbsk to general public. Because I used to see dbsk from non-fan pov too.
tbh, I was introduced then attracted to Yunho first than to dbsk. I used to watch X-Men variety shows in Youtube few years back and get hooked by Yunho's personality & obviously powerful dance during the shows. Also i love his character as the pampered 'prince' by other MCs (esp. Kim Jong Kook & Kang Ho Dong). After few episodes, I learned he's the leader of boyband group called dbsk. But still I didnt really pay attention of dbsk, I only care for Yunho. :P
Through X-Man & Love Letter, I get to know that Yunho is very diplomatic in his relative young age. Which gives me a very positive view about dbsk, eventhough i was a non-fan.
@precious
Thanks for the post. Waiting for ur next post~
Anyway, have you read a post from the japanese blogger about dbsk lawsuit drama ? I think we need to pay to read the full post. K-cassies have translated it to korean, but seems her posts are not a new thing, but if you have read it. Is there something interesting inside?
@ dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteThere's no update on the lawsuit. I heard (not verified) there was another mediation session. Personally, I really want them to go through with the lawsuit and reveal more info. I was so looking forward to hear about the cosmetics business in Japan on the next session. Oh well, I guess for YH and CM's sake, it's probably better to find some kind of settlement and close this chapter.
@ ayoepan
Are you talking about the articles on the Asahi Webzine? Yes, I did read them. There were 2 articles, one of them focuses in detail on the mafia connection of the C-Jes' CEO, but he uses many info provided by the CJS fans, so the article wasn't really good except for the mafia part, which I will cover in the future. Second one was written by an admitted TV2XQ fan who has a pretty good knowledge of what went on, so that was good, but you guys already know about most of the things that were talked about.
@ all
The story about fans playing TVXQ5 & JYJ video at the Beijing fanmeeting is a lie fabricated by some delusional OT5's. Don't believe it. If you think about it, the videos at the fanmeetings are screened/selected by SM, and there's no way the vids with the 3 members would be played.
Also, when the fans asked the two about Chinese fans, they answered "the fans are another member of ours", but OT5's changed that to "the fans are our 6th member" and tweeted the hell out of it. I think it's still going on. I really want to know what's in those people's brain, seriously LOLOL.
You can search for "Beijing fanmade" on youtube and see the fanmade video.
@ all
ReplyDeleteHere are the vids:
Yunho's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO8QVJ7BiFM
Changmin's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-f6kY9xpJc
I don't see any ex-members in those vids LOL.
@ ayoepan
ReplyDeleteOh, I forgot to mention something significant in that Asahi Webzine article. The author who's a TV2XQ fan did talk in detail about the 6.25 meeting in her article which was a first time that the meeting was ever printed on the mainstream media. She also provided links to the Aoi blog, transcript of 6.25 meeting and other related links.
@GRACE
ReplyDeleteSo I'm not the only one thinks JYJ's singing & their voice have gotten worse over the last 2yrs. When I listen to "In Heaven", I found that I cannot recognise Jaejoong's voice at all anymore. I was a big fan of JJ's voice back then but he sounds soooo different now. It's not the way he try to project his voice have changed but the voice itself have changed & in a bad way.
Music-wise, put aside the singer's performance, I think their ballads are still pretty nice. But those up-beat songs sound really terrible to me & I think the "No Name Song" is a real disaster.
@precious/all
I think what yunho said on the fanmeeting was fans is the "마지막 맴버" of TVXQ.
I found it funny that people can spread the rumor that a video with JYJ was played in the fanmeeting (which for sure never happened), those poeple believe the evil SM controls everything & wants to divide the 5 boys but they believe SM allows such a video to be played in the fanmeeting??
@keigo_milk
ReplyDeleteOh yes! As soon as they announce the ticket sales I'll try to find a way to get one! LOL And I'll hope to you of course ;)
@purin70
I agree with you, their ballads are still ok, it's the dance songs that I can't stand. The notes are repetitive and don't compliment their voices at all
@ayoepan
My friend had been trying to make me like DBSK but I didn't budge until I saw Yunho at Family Outing -- pretty late, huh? T__T But his manner & dance impressed me there. So yeah, he's the one who made get to listen DBSK in the first place hahaha
@Precious
ReplyDeleteBeijing fanmeet was frustatingly amusing for me because I get to see first hand how "fact" and "truth" is made in the fandom.
Yunho said that fans are another member of TVXQ (which is something he had said before during guerilla date in January and confirmed by Korean sites who actually attended the show).
Someone heard it and shared it, and somewhere along the way, "another" became "6th" simply because the person thinks of TVXQ still as a quintet. That gets RT-ed and tweeted and "OT5" starts bashing TVXQ fans/HoMin stans, telling us to SHUT THE EF UP COZ YUNHO STILL THINK TVXA AS A QUINTET AND THEY WILL BE REUNITED WADFHASGUAEG (pardon the caps abuse, but it kinda reflect what happened, LOL)
It makes me wonder just how many "facts" and "quotes" being spread in this fandom was said by the members, and how many is their words rephrased, retranslated and reworded by fans.
Funnily enough, they would RT and spread Yunho's words as heard by fans, even when they think Yunho and Changmin is being controlled by SM and everything they say is scripted, thus we can't believe in their interviews.
Yeah, it is quite pathetic when you think about it... LOL
I always wonder if this rabid ot5ing rampant only among international fans? As far as i know korean all-fans don't act like this, most are pretty much resigned to the situation & support both groups. It was really upsetting to see ot5 carelessly spread the rumor about what YH supposedly said in the Beijing fanmeet. I didn't even need the site masters's clarification because it doesn't take a brain to know that YH would not say that. Also the fan vid. The fan party involved SM...why on earth would they allow that to happen?? (And risk offending fans who only went for YH & CM). These rumors that they spread are some of the most brainless i've heard. Now i imagine some rabid ot5 capping our comments and ranting "why are you erasing the memory of 5!?! Asdfgasdd!!" It's not about that. It's just that under the present circumstances, a little common sense and logic would be nice.
ReplyDelete@ all
ReplyDeleteI think it's the international and delusional fans who started the OT5 fabricated lie in during the Beijing fanmeet. They couldn't understand the fact that the current TVXQ is just YH and CM. They are still hoping that the other 3 will re-unite with the duo in the near future (Does the line "Always Keep The Faith" ring any bell?). But these delusional fans need to realize that it was their 3 oppas who first turned their backs on YH and CM and the dreams that they all built together as TVXQ.
I think what YH said during the Beijing fanmeet shouldn't be taken out of context. It just means that TVXQ fans are part of them--> TVXQ and their fans are one. Whoever said that the fans are the "6th member," that person must've been spending too much time far away from earth. LOLOL.
Delusional fans are really...ugh! They just don't get it. Now they are blaming SM Ent. because their 3 precious oppas were not on the top 30 for Melon Music Awards, but other SM artists are on the list. Either don't read the criteria or they just don't understand what is going on at all. I absolutely find it funny whenever they argue that their 3 oppas sold 300,000+ physical albums but they are still nominated. Uuhhh... Duh! Physical albums =/= digital sales, which in case of Melon, digital sales is one of the biggest factor in the artists' nomination.
I apologize if this ranting is not somewhat related to the article above. I just needed to vent-out my frustrations on those delusional fans. *shakes head*
@ Precious
Thanks for the info. I'm not surprised if there will be a mediation (although it is still not verified). But I will find it amusing if it's those 3 are actually the ones who requested it. Flip-flopping much? LOL. I want them to go through the whole trial as well. Expose the truth and clear the name of those who are innocent.
CORRECTION (in all caps below):
ReplyDeleteDelusional fans are really...ugh! They just don't get it. Now they are blaming SM Ent. because their 3 precious oppas were not on the top 30 for Melon Music Awards, but other SM artists are on the list. Either don't read the criteria or they just don't understand what is going on at all. I absolutely find it funny whenever they argue that their 3 oppas sold 300,000+ physical albums but they are still NOT nominated. Uuhhh... Duh! Physical albums =/= digital sales, which in case of Melon, digital sales is one of the biggest factor in the artists' nomination.
*I apologize. I wrote it while watching K-pop videos on my TV*
@keigo_milk
ReplyDeleteahhh i don't know ): my holiday schedule depends on my parents! i'm just hoping i will only fly off after 4th december! *cross fingers"
@dengelmaster21
Lol i bet jyj's side was the one requesting for mediation. i mean, if it was SM, i bet Cjes would've tipped someone to write an article boasting about how they successfully made SM bow down to them
And at the end of the article there would always a mention about jyj being the ultimate encapsulation of human rights who should be eternally worshipped and protected because OMG they sold 300k (or 350k?) of albums without promotion (other than concerts/twitter/i-miss-yunho-and-changmin drama) and OMG they are just 3 pitiful young men (with luxurious houses and cool cars) who get blocked by all TV stations!
@precious
ohhh i forgot to thank you for this post, so THANK YOU! can't wait for the next one :D i was kinda hoping for lawsuit update but since there's none...oh well. heehee take care!
@ staceyannez
ReplyDeleteWe'll see though. Precious said the mediation is still not verified. So, let's wait patiently.
On the other note. How ironic isn't it? The ones who are dubbed as "slaves" are the ones with luxurious houses and fast cars. Hhmmm... If this is the case, then I will not work at all and just be a "slave." LOL. As for the album sales, I don't know if the 300,000+ sales has been officially declared. Once again, let us wait patiently for the actual data to come out.
Right now, let's just cheer for TVXQ and be true Cassies in mind, heart and soul (Let us not be pretentious Cassies). =)
@ dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteAs usual, the 300,000+ sales is the number announced by C-Jes. It's not an official figure released by any of the distributors, but that number is spread all over the net-news sites, so people who have no clue just believes it. Hanteo chart shows about 130,000. It's not the first time they have released unconfirmed & exaggerated news, so I'm not surprised. (shrug)
@precious
ReplyDeleteyes, the Asahi Webzine's articles. Thanks for the info. I didn't know they're posted by two different authors. Were this two articles released at the same exact time? Maybe Asahi try to be objective, picking ideas from both side, though I doubt if the mafia's connection will help cjes's image to general public (or at least fandom).
And its good to see that 625 is spread out... This low conducts should never ever happen in the first place. Let the readers judge about 625, people w/ the right mind will see the real situation of this drama.
@Trieze
there's no too late for liking dbsk xD
@ ayoepan
ReplyDeleteFrom what I know, two articles were published on the same day, and the first author who dealt with C-Jes released second part of the article the next day.
@all:
ReplyDeletei just saw something about GDA being circulated around twitter where SJ have more than 25K votes, JYJ have more than 20K votes and TVXQ has 9k votes-is it for the awards, or is this some sort of popularity contest-can international fans vote?
i have to say im really confused by these awards! its almost as if all major awards depend on votings. shouldnt music awards be granted to those who produce the highest quality entertainment with the best execution of vocal, concept, and style of music rather than just who has more kiddie fans with too much time on their hands to vote for their fav?
ReplyDeletei would understand if there is one popularity award that depends on voting but to have pretty much all major awards depend on voting makes this whole thing a bit useless. there are many music lovers out there who are not into the whole voting stuff but that doesnt mean that they dont buy albums.
can u imagine if this was the system used in the grammys u would be seeing Justin Bieber and miley cyrus winning every single major grammy award out there like the album of the year and the record of the year in the place of more talented and critically acclaimed artists like lady gaga, beyonce, Amy winehouse, and Kings of Leons. all great sellers and huge icons but dont have kiddie voters stuck on their computer all day voting for generic songs with no decent musical identity.
sorry if i seem a bit harsh but i have been trying to find info about these korean music awards and tbh the whole thing is pissing me off. btw this has nothing to do with JYJ, and i knw that music is a subjective thing, but i find it seriously unfair how TVXQ has to face tough competition from other bands despite the fact that those bands albums dont even hold a candle near TVXQs in terms of vocal, unique style of music, execution of concept, and high quality performance.
srry again for the rant..btw does anybody knw if TVXQ is eligible for any japanese awards? and if they are how are those japanese awards handed out?
@ Precious / @ all:
ReplyDeleteAccording to Gaon Chart, the cumulative sales for JYJ so far is 136,500. It states it is from the month of September. Please do correct me if I'm wrong since the website is in Korean and my knowledge of the language is limited. But if this is correct, then I'm not surprised since C-JeS is a company of big fat lies.
If this data from Gaon is correct, then it correspond to the data from Hanteo. Now who should you believe? =)
@ Precious
Thanks for the info about the Hanteo chart sales. I feel really disgusted with C-JeS. Trying to get attention by publishing false and inaccurate information. Now who should we call liars, right?
@ all
ReplyDeleteAccording to Gaon Chart, the cumulative sales for JYJ's "In Heaven" album is 136,500. The cumulative sales date is from September. Please do correct me if I'm wrong since the whole site is in Korean and my knowledge of the language is limited. This data somewhat matches with the data from Hanteo. C-JeS is definitely a company of lies and exaggeration. Ugh! So annoying. Now, who would you believe right?
@ Precious
Thanks for the info about the Hanteo chart. Now, I'm not surprised with the false information about the album sales. C-JeS does know how to lie about their information. A company of big fat lies. I just hate it since they are deceiving those people who are still blinded with what's going on. Maybe the 300,000 they are talking about are the albums they produced, not the number of sales. Totally different things.
@all: check this
ReplyDeleteKfans got proofs how KJYJfans have disturbed the voting in Melon because jyj was not on the list of Melon Music Award and to mess with TVXQ's rank:
http(:)//bbs3(.)telzone(.)daum(.)net/gaia/do/starzone/detail/read?articleId=11292801&objCate1=6&bbsId=S000001&forceTalkro=T&pageIndex=2
K-fans found the evidence from a JYJ fansite: when they posted what JYJ fans should vote for, they added the Melon vote link as you can see in the middle; telling JYJ fans to vote for the other SME group to make sure that TVXQ will not get the highest rank.
Some Kfans say that Kjyjfans are planning on doing the same to distrust the Billboard voting to prevent TVXQ from wining.
This is a direct link to the post in the JYJfansite:
http(:)//bbs3(.)telzone(.)daum(.)net/gaia/do/starzone/detail/read?articleId=11292539&objCate1=96&bbsId=S000001&forceTalkro=T&pageIndex=1
Notice the expressions they have used on the bands pictures:
http(:)//i39(.)tinypic(.)com/xm1u2s.jpg
SuJu: a worried face
Other band: an angry face
JYJ: nothing
http(:)//i40(.)tinypic(.)com/42tud.jpg
The funny thing is when a JYJ fan says the following:
https(:)//twitter(.)com/#!/fathiah/status/130296743710556160
http(:)//i42(.)tinypic(.)com/2co5rsz.jpg
correction:
ReplyDelete*telling JYJ fans to vote for the another group to make sure that TVXQ will not get the highest rank.
(there are rumors that Kjyjfans are planning on voting for Beast for the Billboard voting to make sure that TVXQ will not win it)
@ all
ReplyDeleteWhy am I not surprised with this voting conspiracy? Let us not stoop down to their level. Instead, let us help TVXQ in any way that we can. We are Cassies and we should not be put down by these ridiculous fans. TVXQ all the way!
@pinkdreamer88
ReplyDeletewho's even shocked or outraged anymore at their antics? that fandom are as much "against TVXQ" as it is "for JYJ". poor sods. i'll be sorry to see other artists like Beast (whom ironically always speak highly of TVXQ) get involved in their fckery. what kind of pathetic people waste their time doing this? tsk tsk.
this is exactly why i dont understand how pple in korea can still consider these voting based awards hold any type of credibility and fairness in the industry. if those awards were judged properly and fairly by a real panel of music experts and critics who are able to form objective non-bias opinions then we wouldnt have to face this type of situation.
ReplyDeletei feel bad for the artists who actually spend time coming up with great meaningful lyrics and concepts for their album, only to have them completely ignored for the sake of lesser quality songs and vocals, just because the pple who sing them are popular with teenagers.
@pinkdreamer88
tbh i donno what to think of this whole thing. i dont knw why but i get the feeling that the whole thing was probably started by a Beast fan who wanted to take advantage of the situation JYJ and TVXQ is in to get more votes for Beast. otherwise why Beast when Beast have always praised and supported TVXQ. might as well choose BigBang whose member TOP is supposedly one of JJs closest friends.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteArk! I'm a hundred comments late already??
ReplyDeleteBut it's so nice to see a new post.. I've been waiting, so thank you Precious! ^^
@Precious and @all:
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have any idea what this blog talks about? Its in Japanese and some fans have been talking about it on twitter-something to do with Avex and Matsura and gangsters??
http://henkoukanousei.blog61.fc2.com/blog-entry-215.html
@ Reema
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like a settlement proposal. My translator is messed-up big time, so don't count on it. On the other note, Precious mentioned before that there might be a mediation session (but is not verified yet). Let's wait for what Precious will say. Thanks for the heads-up though.
@all
ReplyDeleteQuestion: How much does fan voting actually weight for these Korean awards? Because for one of those awards things earlier this year where fans had to vote, TVXQ won in fan votes but did not receive the award. And in the past, even when TVXQ was still a five member group, I used to read fans complaining all the time that the awards were chosen by the different broadcasting companies and biased toward SM/YG/JYP depending on the award show and didn't take into consideration indie groups or non kpop groups that have a lot of talent but not the backing of one of the Big Three. So it seemed like the awards were not really based on fan votes entirely, but picked by whatever group was hosting the award.
@ Reema
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I don't know Japanese either, so I can't help you with this one. I don't know what that blog is about, but I think Matsuura is in trouble for messing up TVXQ, losing SNSD, and YG artists not working out as well as he hoped for.
@ dengelmaster21
Mediation already happened a few times, but I just don't know the details of those sessions because they were not public. I know the first mediation attempt in 2009 failed because CJS refused to settle with SM. That was then, and now the tide has turned, and we don't know who requested the latest rounds of mediation.
Hi all, I found this translation of the Japanese blog above:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.twitlonger.com/show/dufcjl
I find it rather opinionated, but it might be just me... I don't know how accurate the translation is.
@ all
ReplyDeleteAccording to this translation, SM is the one requesting for settlement again. Hhmmm.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the blog is saying that the exclusive long-term contract has been decided to be invalid. I thought the contract was given a temporary injunction, but whether or not the contract is valid is still an ongoing trial.
Did you see the translation of YC's interview for High Cut mag? He is saying, “There are so many things to think about and also many things to sort out that it’s no longer a problem a single person’s big heart can solve. Whatever the future outcome, I believe it will be solved after some time.”
What do you think? I'm not saying that he is hinting on a settlement, but it sounded like that to me. This is just my opinion. I apologize if I had taken it out of context.
@ silverpixieisme, dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteYour posts were in the spam folder, so I just recovered it. Blogspot should give me more control over the spams... ugh!
@ dengelmaster21
The contract was never ruled invalid. It was the injunction judge's opinion that it may be considered invalid which was the basis of temporarily suspending the effect of the contract while the lawsuit is pending. As for SM requesting the settlement, the translation quoted the writer without mentioning that she thought the settlement request was just a part of lawsuit process. Unless we know the details of the settlement, we really cannot determine anything. I know SM was willing to negotiate with CJS, even offering to modify/improve the contract again to keep the TVXQ going, but CJS' side simply refused it. Maybe that was what they were talking about, but again, without knowing what that "settlement request" was about, we really don't know anything. Settlement offers happen all the time in a civil lawsuit.
@Rho Cas
ReplyDeleteIt's a translation by Mari-san, TrueTVXQ translator, and it's accurate.
I think what make it seems opinionated is the fact that most of the articles is excerpt of document prepared by C-Jes.
I'll quote the excerpt from the link above:
Heisei 23rd year, Sept 22, the JYJ's Korean deputy lawyer Sin Ji-Hye has made an inquiry to the deputy of the complainant as, "SM Entertainment has requested to reach a settlement including the trial going on in Japan, but it is difficult to understand the true reason why SM made such a proposal."
Recently in Korea, for the lawsuit concerning the effect of exclusive contract between the management company and the artist, the Supreme Court has made a judicial decision that the long term exclusive contract is invalid. For the lawsuit (appeal trial) between SM and JYJ, there is high possibility that the court will rule in favor of JYJ, therefore, SM seems to be thinking to solve the trial (for both Korea and Japan) at the same time by legal settlement. Since SM has made a representation to the deputy lawyer Sin Ji-Hye, it means that the defendant will follow SM’s instructions. It can easily be guessed that the reason why the defendant is interfering with the complainant's Japanese management (for JYJ) is because the defendant is considering SM’s intensions."'
cont.
cont.
ReplyDeleteActually, there's another article by Ono san preceeding this one, in which Ono san informed that another trial between Avex and C-Jes has taken place on 2011 Oct 20, from 13.30 pm. The trial was only for preparatory proceedings and closed to public, but those with interest can ask for the copy of the court's documents.
Keep in mind that it is a document prepared by C-Jes, naturally it must reflect C-Jes' interest on some point or another.
For me some points are questionable, such as:
"it is difficult to understand the true reason why SM made such a proposal."
This is from C-Jes' point of view.
Which I can't understand, because as far as I know, the Korean court has always suggested a peaceful negotiation from the beginning. I remember reading the Judge's advice somewhere that for a negotiation both parties have to be prepared to lose a little (something along that line).
As Precious explained, at that time, the suggestion was rejected by JYJ's side.
Until now, the trial has dragged longer than everybody's liking and there's no sign that the trial is nearing settlement, so for me it is not difficult to understand at all if SM want to suggest mediation for the second time, especially if we look back that Hangeng's case apparently has been successfully solved this way.
and this:
"Since SM has made a representation to the deputy lawyer Sin Ji-Hye, it means that the defendant (Avex) will follow SM’s instructions. It can easily be guessed that the reason why the defendant is interfering with the complainant's Japanese management (for JYJ) is because the defendant is considering SM’s intentions."
I think it's true that Avex will consider SM's move regarding the lawsuit, but not to the extend that SM will control Avex's action. Avex has its own reason to block JYJ, namely, their own business interest. Regardless whether or not SM suggest second mediation, Avex will still make ChunJaeSu's activities in Japan difficult, because the contract problem between JYJ and Avex does not involve SM at all. ChunJaeSu didn't even sign their contract with Avex under SM at that time.
Ono san barely barely put his opinion at all on that article. There are some accusations on the comments section that thanks to Ono san's unclear articles, there are confusions among fans. But I think Ono san just wrote based on the information he has got so far. He already mentioned that there's no formal announcement yet from SM, Avex, or C-Jes. He simply informed fans about the latest development, probably as a prelude to future articles if there are new court documents available.
@Reema
ReplyDeleteSince you got the information from twitter, probably you already got access to the translation(s) now.
Just want to clear for those with no access that there are two articles that were discussed that day, and the one regarding Matsu'ura CEO is this one:
http://new365.blog111.fc2.com/blog-entry-6640.html
and the translation also by Mari san is here:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dtppr1
Since it's an article by entertainment tabloid blog, there's no need to take it seriously. but if they'll change Avex CEO in the near future, I hope it's someone capable since it'll be related to Tohoshinki's direction and promotion.
@Precious
spazzing over SNSD taking first place on GAON weekly chart.
Yay yay yay yay yay yay yay!!!
I know you work hard for both fandoms, I hope this kind of good news can be some kind of pay off (I'm sorry if that sounds profit oriented, I don't know how to put it right XP)
@Hikari:
ReplyDeleteThanks so much-yes I have read the translations-Since its a blog, have to take it with a grain of salt-Although since Yoochun the most consistent member of JYJ has spoken about resolution, I believe something is in the works for sure.
@Reema
ReplyDeleteidk but i didnt really get the feeling that resolution is on the way from YCs statement. correct me if im wrong (i only read few sentences by fans here and there about it so not sure what he said in total) but from what i understand he was asked what he thought of the conflict with TVXQ members and he said something along the lines that no matter how big a persons heart is the conflict will not be solved easily without allowing a lot of time to pass by. so basically he said that only time will heal the wounds between them and homin.
this is the only statement that i read about on twitter but i didnt get anything from it regarding the lawsuit..maybe there was another statement about it?
on a side note i was reading some of the fan accounts about the JYJ concert in Spain, and to say that the whole organization was a mess is an understatement. fans have been complaining that the goodies sold were all cheap and broken. there was a huge lack of organization in the venue with pple who paid for VIP tickets either getting shoved to the back by over-enthusiastic fans or ending up sitting on cheap broken chairs at the front. the dancers also had their families and friends brought to the front and they bothered the fans with their drinking and swearing the whole time. on top of that the concert started an hour late and the boys supposedly did not get to finish the whole set list they were suppose to sing.
im noticing some of JYJ fans are starting to show extreme displeasure at CJeS for all these messes they are causing at JYJ concerts. i also noticed that some of the fans are growing annoyed by the 300000 copies CJeS keeps harping about in their press releases because none of the official sources are showing such sales and its turning JYJ fans into the laughing stock of Kpop fans
@sarahM
ReplyDeleteSince I don't hop around fandom much, I rarely get any detailed info on JYJ's concerts but when I did it was always great and "spectacular". I did hear about the mess of the their US tour once though.
You have any link of any available fan account that tells about the mess of the Spain concert? Just curious cause most fans were bragging about how successful it's been. Thanks.
@sarahM, @Trieze:
ReplyDeleteI did some comments from OT5's who were at the concert that it was a mess and they were trying to figure out how to file an official complaint.
About Yoochun, some say he was talking about SM and some say about TVXQ-My feeling is there might have been some arbitration with SM for him to even talk about it, since he is the only one who hasnt said anything in the last few years-But well only time will tell....
@Trieze
ReplyDeletethe one i found with all the criticism about the goodies, dancer friends, cheap VIP seats that cost alot of money, and shortened song list was from SYC. i think u can find it easily since it was only posted 2 or 3 days ago.
there were couple of fans on twitter who were that that day and kept tweeting throughout. i saw couple of tweets of theirs complaining about other fans rushing to the front with no care and pushing each other, and how disorganized the whole event seemed
@Trieze
ReplyDeletejust found it. u can scroll down to (Part 3 The Concert) and read the first 2 paragraphs
http(:)//sharingyoochun.net/2011/11/01/fanaccount-111029-jyj-in-barcelona/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wordpress%2FSYC+%28fashion+follows+yoochun%29
@Reema
ReplyDeleteoh ok u might be right then since the only translations i have read were from JYJ fans on twitter so maybe his statement was played with
@sarahM
ReplyDeleteThanks bb! Checking it out now ;)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Nina:
ReplyDeleteMay I ask where they got the numbers from? I know there have been claims of 300K but there is no proof-Will have to wait for the month end data.
@Nina, below is a reply to my query from @Hyeonmu a week back:
ReplyDelete"@Reema
I saw this RT-ed on my timeline last night:
2011 Album Sales Ranking (till 1/10/2011) #1 SJ -318,669 #2 TVXQ - 233,413 #3 JYJ - 136,500 #4 Big Bang-135,630 #5 B2ST - 135,440 CR : NAVER
Hope this answers your question. ^__^ "
So in 10 days I am doubtful that they have sold 100K copies, but then anything is possible, so lets wait and see.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOMG! I wrote that Mari san is TrueTVXQ translator. I mean, OneTVXQ, of course. I'm sorry （＾。＾）7
ReplyDeleteBtw, this is a translation of a comment on Ono san's blog:
Rumors among Homin fans are really awesome.
This is why the number of respectable fans is decreasing.
When I went to SMTown. they were more interested in JYJ rumors and slanders than the concert that was about to begin.
FYI, at JYJ concert, the fans were talking about JYJ only.
The one who wishes to get a break is our side.
Eventhough I like Homin, I can't go to their concert.
It is not fun to be in a space where people are more enthusiastic to talk about JYJ rumors than Homin．
.....
.....
.....
Sometimes it's inevitable to talk about JYJ because they're related to the lawsuit which is also concerning Tohoshinki.
But what does how much JYJ sold, or whether their concert was succesful or not, or how JYJ fans brag about this or that, is relevant on Tohoshinki blog?
There are enough of JYJ fansites out there. Or Kpop blogs, which will eventually post the legit chart numbers.
Regarding the comments war from both side, Ono san pointed:
The comment section is not very amusing.
Everyone, lets be more positive. From my point of view, Yunho, Changmin, Jejung, Yuchun and Junsu are also doing it with joy.
(omitted)
Probably it can't be helped, but lets stop getting in each other way. Honestly, it gets boring.
@reema @nina
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen the official Gaon chart for October monthly, but I did read a claim like that on JYJ3 based on Hanteo 2011 album ranking. Unfortunately, it doesn't include number, but the article itself reported that JYJ sales up that day was around 123,*** or something.
Do I think they did well? Absolutely, they did extremely well. Do I think they will top SuJu's sales? Nope... At least not according Hanteo sales.
I am still waiting for GAON October to be released, since it will help us to see their overall sales. Until then, I really can't give you guys numbers aside from my own projections.
@ Precious
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'm saying. The contract was never ruled invalid (as I understood from reading your posts). There was an injunction, but never a ruling that the contract was invalid. The translation was misleading. It was also annoying, since there are fans who, do not have any idea of what is going on, will think that the contract was already ruled as invalid. Then another "blame SM for hindering JYJ" headline will start again. Ugh!
@ all
The first JYJ concert in the US (well in NY) was a mess. It was held in a small venue. There was a lot of pushing and you could actually see the crowd shifting. At that time, the trio were denied a performer's visa, so no goodies were allowed to be sold and they had to perform for free. Oh and I was deaf after the performance since the girl next to me kept screaming next to my ear. The second round of concert in East Coast (held in NJ) was better. It was held in a better venue, but there was so little interaction between JYJ and the fans. They only sang. No intermissions. Sometimes, I couldn't understand what they were singing. The lyrics were overshadowed by the music, which was way too loud.
@dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteThe translation is not misleading. It just follows what originally written on the document.
Now, if you say that the wording on the original document is misleading, then yes, it can be said so.
Nina said...
ReplyDeleteJYJ`s In Heaven is the second best selling album for 2011 after SJ. I don't know how many copies were sold but this is according to fans till October 10th.
++
I think what you are referring to is based on Hanteo 2011 Album Award
you can check the rank here
http(:)//www.hanteo.com/rank/nHanteo_award2k.asp?genre=9
it clearly stated the total numbers of In Heaven sold till 2th Nov: 123,537
By the way, In Heaven has 4 versions, Mr simple has 10 covers, and Hanteo counts all these versions as 1 album
on the other hand hanteo KYHD sales is counted separately: special version ,normal version and repackage version... thus the album sales are divided
http(:)//i54.tinypic.com/246oxac.jpg
from this pic you can see KYHD is divided into 3, they dont combine all versions into 1 album for Hanteo Album Rank (sorry this is outdated example - the album sales from jan till 13 april 2011)
@ Hikari
ReplyDeleteThanks for the translation.
Hooray for SNSD!!! Actually, I don't really do anything for SNSD even though I love them. I'm what others call a "light" fan. I never got involved too deeply in any fandom. I just enjoy the music & performances and don't care about what's going on in their private lives. Running this blog was the first time I ever got involved in any kind of fandom. As matter of fact, I never even ran a blog before this one. It's just this TVXQ saga was so unfair, I almost had to create this blog to let the fans know the truth.
I knew what I was getting into, so I kinda hesitated for a month, but then after the flurry of tweets and more bashings, I just couldn't help it. :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteto all
ReplyDeletei don't think this is a place to talk about jyj's album sales or what ever, there are jyj stans in disguise who start this kinds of conversations like in every other place but it's not hard to notice and ignore them.
for new people like me who came here seeking the truth and also curious about others thought on the articles, and find jyj sales talk in the comment section, is really inaccurate and unnecessary.
@ precious
as a new fan i was confused and didn't know what to believe or to think, so i was lead to your site and i couldn't almost believe how one could do such disgusting things to the people who once were their friends(i would like to believe they were friends).
i also read all the articles regarding the lawsuit on sites like jyjfiles... but they didn't provide a non-biased evidence for my understanding and it just made me even more confused. Now every thing is clear and i look froward to your future posts.
i would also like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for doing such a good job, it took me over 2 weeks to finish reading all your articles please keep supporting and believing in TVXQ much much love <3
sorry about my bad english it is not my first language after all.
@ Cs_lady
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the fandom and my blog. Glad to know that my posts helped you understand what's going on.
@ all
I don't really pay too much attention to JYJ sales figure. Those fans boasting bogus number is slightly annoying, but let them be happy in their fantasy world. If they do well, then good for them. Music is not a sport where you have to beat the other guy to be successful anyways, so whatever.
Hi all, i'm a new fan of TVXQ. I knew them as 5 in 2010 because my friend was so crazy over Mirotic. While i enjoyed their music as 5, i was also curious abt their situation after the lawsuit happened.
ReplyDeleteI found it very interesting to see current situation compared to what has happened 2 years ago.
People constantly doubted Homin's capability to carry on TVXQ name and insulted them like there's no tomorrow. But we barely heard them make any statement to defend their situation. From what i remember, they only asked for fans support coz they promised to work hard in order to give out their best. While the other 3 walked out from SM with these title: “The Main Members of TVXQ” and “The Main TVXQ Vocalist”. Nobody ever doubted their talent at that moment. People believed that they were genious enough to succeed in music industry w/o SM. They were praised so highly while Homin was extremely being underestimated, musically speaking.
But what happens today? Homin keep showing us improvement. They are so busy that most of their pics and reports are from Airport, Music/Reality shows, and Concerts/Fan Events. Lots of people in Music Industry have praised their works, dancing ability, and charisma while their juniors are looking on them as role models. Apart from some delusional fans, people start to recognize them as a duo and they gradually get out from CJS' shadow. They create a very good relationship with senior, junior, and fans. Most people even regard them now as a singing duo rather than an idol.
CJS themselves, from what i see, are mostly active in individual activities. Most of people recognized them from their dramas and solo performances rather than from who they are as JYJ. With emo tweets, luxurious stuffs show-off parade, and lawsuit over lawsuit, they seems to give themselves bad names among neutral community. Not to mention their fans behaviour, ugh! >_<
Their music is not my taste, but i feel sorry mostly for junsu. He has a great vocal and dancing ability but many JYJ songs don't accentuate his voice. That's too bad, considering that he was one of the strongest vocalist and dancer in TVXQ.
My friends said that it's some kind of Karma, “You'll reap what you sow”.
But again, that's only my opinion. People are free to agree or disagree. And i'm sorry if my POV is too offended for some people.
Last but not least, i want to thank you to Precious for his work to provide information for i-fans. Sorry for my long rant and bad english. ^__^
@ t-hikari
ReplyDeleteI meant to say the article, not translation. LOL. Thank you for correcting me. I haven't had my cup of coffee at that time.
@ Cs_lady
We are not trying to start a fanwar in regards to the sales of JYJ. Heck! For me, if they did well, congratulations. If not, well they will have more opportunity. The point that we are trying to make (I'm trying to make, to be exact) is that the reports are very annoying and very deceiving. The hardcore JYJ fans will then start bashing on HoMin again by saying somewhere in between the lines "Look at our sales. You got nothing compared to us." or "Look at you, you have a big agency and promote on TV. but your sales is not comparable to us." blah...blah...blah... I feel really sad whenever they would say that HoMin do not live-up to the expectations and standards of being TVXQ. They would also blame SME. If you read those websites that write about the sales figure, you would encounter some comments like, "In your face SME." or "Stop blocking JYJ from performing on TV." or "SME is just being a c*ckblocker." (yet those fans do not have solid proof that SME is blocking JYJ from being on TV). I comment on the sales figure, not to start disagreements or diss on JYJ, but rather, as a way of saying, "Let us not get too ahead of ourselves. Let us wait for the official reports. Let us not be deceived." Like what I said, if the trio did very well, congratulations. I just hope their hardcore fans will leave HoMin alone. They are now walking on different paths. Let us all just accept that. But thank you for your comment.
@ all
Totally not related to the ex-DNBN announcement, but did you read the reports that some tickets to TVXQ;s Japanese tour are being sold to the black market (I'm not sure if the term "black market" should be correct *shrugs*) with staggering prices? Although some tickets are being sold to this "market," I still feel happy knowing that the love for TVXQ is still great. Cassies and BigEasts are definitely something. So proud of the boys!
@Precious
ReplyDeleteThank you for all your posts! I always enjoy them. Looking forward to read your future ones.
@All
Does anyone know who was backing JYJ when they decided to leave SM and file an injuction? I mean you wouldn't leave a big label without knowing that your future will be secure and you will have far better opportunities than what you've got now. And going alone is not as easy as having a big company backing you up especially in the entertainment industry. If my theory is right, then who was/were the backers?
@talking2me,
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question. From the moment I found out about their split, It's the first thought that came to my mind. I've always thought before they left they had made plans and had been convinced they were the main members of the group and main vocalists. For me that will explain their arrogance especially after they had just left Sm and started jyj. I think these people made them a lot of promises and in the beginning every thing went swimmingly. If you remember jyj and their fans were full of themselves saying things like they don't need Sm and they were better off without Yh and Cm because they were not as talented or popular. However things are not as plain sailing now, and I think that will explain their change of attitude and stance on certain things like being 'ex-tvxq members'. I too would like to know who their backers are because I don't think they would have just left without a back-up plan. I could be wrong but this is what I think.
@dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteI didn't say you try to start a fan war. what i meant is this is not the place to discuss CJS's sales figure. i'm sure none of the fans(new or old) come here to talk about how much they really sold. like i don't care if they sell well or if they don't that's their business.
regarding the stans that are bashing on TVXQ you should just ignore them. you know when a person tries to put you down that means they know you are better than them. they see TVXQ as a big threat to their CJS that's why all this bashing and calling names come from. if that annoys you just don't be a part of that talk simple.
the funny thing is when they blame SME for their oppas misfortune LOL SME is not GOD it's clear that they don't have that much influence on all of the entertainment people may be few but not all. i think they blame SME because they want some closure. i just hope if they'd let it go.
@precious
thank you :) i discovered TVXQ through my best friend who is a hardcore shinee fan lol. i'm glad she forced me to watch a shinee mv and i somehow ended up watching Mirotic/KYHD and i got hooked for ever.
i have a question though, i searched for DNBN on google and there are two sites DNBN.org and DNBN.pe.kr(this one is active and they support CJS)is dnbn.org active too? because when i opened it there is a post in korean/japanese and i can't read what it says.
@all I`m sorry i posted this earlier. I did it only because some people were interested in "this topic" and the ot5 friend i got it from sincerely supports both sides and would not lie.
ReplyDeleteI agree that despite the ambiguous reports, this is not something that we should discuss and i apologize for bringing this up again :( I`ll delete it.
PS> Winter Rose sounds amazing!!<3
@talking2me @apooli guessing their back up plan was Avex?
ReplyDelete@ Cs_lady
ReplyDeleteOriginal address of DNBN was DNBN.org, but after they kicked out the original admin, they moved the server to DNBN.pe.kr, and currently, they're only supporting JYJ.
DNBN.org has articles written by the ex-admin Byul (means star), the one who was responsible for the post I translated here, and she owns the DNBN.org domain. There are articles about the interviews she had with the parents, and explanations about the lawsuit & TVXQ crisis. She was a JS biased, but she was a true OT5 who wanted to bring back TVXQ5. She knew who was at fault though, and she wanted SM & CJS to find a resolution. No wonder JYJ fans kicked her out.
@ talking2me, apooli
There were rumors that CJS were backed by the CJ group, who owns MNet and is a major movie distributor in Korea. CJ is a huge company, and they were mentioned in 6.25 meeting by JS' father many times. I also think CJS already made a deal with Avex as well and already working with the CEO of C-Jes, but these are just guesses w/o any solid proof, but like you said, they won't leave SM w/o any plan, especially activities in Japan where most money was for them. 6.25 mentions that they're planning to do activities in Japan only, and that shows the deal with Avex was already in place. There are many theories, and it's really complicated involving many big companies. I'll probably cover it in the future when I'm done posting "facts". :)
Oh about CJ, the fact the 3 appeared on MNet, who was at odds with SM at that time, supports that CJ was behind the scenes. Also Kim Gwang Soo, CEO of the company that manages T-Ara, had ties with MNet back then, and he was involved in the musicals JS appeared. There's no definite proof, and probably never will be, but the circumstantial evidences are pretty strong that CJ had a hand in it.
ReplyDeleteThe theory is that CJ & SM were fighting over the distribution of the songs, and CJ wanted to bury SM by grabbing SM's biggest act, TVXQ. From what I heard, SM almost folded because of TVXQ & Avex selling all their stock and cutting ties. If it weren't for SNSD's huge success in Japan, SM might've not survived.
Hi all!
ReplyDeleteIm just wondering..If JYJ really has the backing of CJ, then why is that JYJ is not on the list of MAMA ranking this time round?
It was said that MNet and SM reconciled, so what does this mean? That they(MNet) are working with SM and what does this mean for JYJ?
Sry if im not making any sense, its 4am now!
FYI: TVXQ is currently at #1 spot for Best Dance Performance for MAMA!!! =)
When I said, "We are not trying to start a fanwar in regards to the sales of JYJ," it is my little disclaimer in regards to the talk about the album sales, so that whoever will read the posts will not think that it is a way of bashing JYJ. I should've put more emphasis on this disclaimer. Before my posts, some fans (before me) got really curious on how many albums were sold. I just tried to answer their question based on the data (Gaon) shown so far. I know this is not the place to discuss this, but when you look at the posts after my answer, they still ask about this question. What I did was just trying to put an end to this question. I also tried to confirm the data shown on Gaon by asking around, since I'm not Korean and my knowledge of the language is limited. I hope this statement is sufficient enough to stop the others from opening up that topic again.
ReplyDeleteAs for the bashing on TVXQ, it is hard to ignore them. Believe me when I say that I don't even comment on those websites that have their users bash on the current TVXQ. I don't even have an account for those websites. It is hard, but I still try. Even when my hands are itching to get an account just to end those malicious comments, I still stop myself from doing so. For me, the bashing is annoying, not just because of what they are saying, but because there is really minimal to nothing you can do to stop it. It is like you try to defend the duo once, but they will attack you a hundred times. I try not to participate in that talk, but there is also a limit in what I can take as a concerned fan, especially when the things they are starting to say are being malicious and completely false. I hope you will understand where I'm coming from.
But I really do appreciate it when people point things out to me. I'm not perfect, but whenever I write a comment, I feel so compelled to expose and acknowledge the truth. I hope no one will take what I said out of context. I'm merely pointing out what I feel right now. Let's end this topic here and let us just cheer for TVXQ!
@ jojo2302
ReplyDeleteLike I stated on my comment, it is just a speculation that CJ was supporting JYJ, but nothing's confirmed, so don't put too much weight on that info. MNet has replaced many executives before reconciling with SM, then TVXQ made their comeback on M-Countdown. As for JYJ not appearing on MAMA, I have no clue, but I'm not sure if JYJ is big enough to appear on that show or if their album did well enough to be invited. The reality is, JYJ is not that famous outside their fandom, and most people don't even know what JYJ is. They didn't get any airplay so that's kinda natural. It would actually be awkward for them to appear on MAMA.
@Nina
ReplyDeleteyou really don't have to delete your comment, i didn't mean to be rude or anything if i come of that way i'm sorry. i just thought that there are enough places with those kinds of talks and there is no need to also talk about it on an article which states the mistreatment of TVXQ in this crazy fandom. that's all sorry if i made you think the other way.
@precious
i think kicking her out was bad on their part( because it showed their stance even if it doesn't matter now) and for her to be a JS biased and really wish for a reunion(btw, which i don't want to happen now or in the future)shows how rational she is and may be a good person too.which led me to my second question, is dnbn the only tvxq site in korea? does that mean the current TVXQ doesn't have major korean fan site like dnbn?
@dengelmaster21
again i'm sorry if i made you feel like you're wrong for stating your opinion. you have every right to say what you think i was just commenting on how i felt about reading the comments which have nothing to do with the article. may be you misunderstood me because of my poor english lol, sorry again.
the bashing/trolling and the pretending to stan tvxq and start wank.... is all the new strategy of CJS fans these days. trust me i get you. i've been there i've witnessed it all but you know what you can't wake up a person who slept on purpose. whatever they're doing now it will bite them back on the butt later.
you just do the only thing that will actually help our boys VOTE for them :) and enjoy their flawless music and the fruit of their hard work.
@ Cs_lady
ReplyDeleteNo offense taken. I used to be a writer/editor for school newspaper, so I'm used to criticisms and I always welcome other people's comments and suggestions. Those things makes me a better writer and give me the opportunity to be more open-minded.
@ all
I listened to the teaser of TVXQ's "Winter Rose". It's so good that I can't wait to get my own copy of the single. *spazz mode on*
@ Cs_lady
ReplyDeleteActually, kicking her and other admins out worked exactly the way they wanted to. By controlling the info, and feeding lies to the fans, CJS had fans full support.
Anyways, Byul (ex-admin) is not active in getting TVXQ5 back any more. Her last post I believe was sometime early 2010.
Current TVXQ's biggest fan site is 2paradise.
@Apooli
ReplyDeleteI so agree with you. JYJ is not dumb and I bet they are very smart and had worked out a plan. But somehow somewhere things went wrong and didn't happen according to their plan. I wonder what they will be if they were not that arrogant and didn't burn the bridge with Avex
@idifl
Avex? I think it is quite obvious that Avex did support JYJ at the beginning. I always wonder what went wrong between JYJ and Avex. Do you know what happened?
@Precious
Thank you for the 'theories'. I found them fascinating. If your guess is correct, then the whole thing is just a take-over war between 2 companies but somehow innocent people including JYJ got involved and hurted. p.s. I am not a JYJ fan but feel sorry for them because I think they really have lost something important in life - friendships and respects from the industry - over financial gains. I am looking forward to read your 'facts' and 'theories' posts in the future. I know you are very busy but please don't make us wait so long. Thanks!
@talking2me
ReplyDeleteHonestly I don't feel sorry for them at all. At the end of the day they did not have to say or do what they did. It was a personal choice to leave and then try to bury there supposed "brothers" regardless of the companies involved. They were greedy and selfish it's as simple as that. Personally I was raised to have integrity and respect and for me what they did was just above and beyond what should have happened. If they would have left quietly and not spread all the rumors and propaganda then maybe I would feel a little sorry for them but that is what they did. It's just wrong. I can't feel sorry for them putting themselves in that situation.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteI agree with your every point, but I personally don't really enjoy putting a label on the three, most of the time it puts their fans in a defense mode and nothing productive really come out from it, LOL
I disagree with their actions and I do think whatever happens to them, they have to take responsibility for it because it is their decision. It is frustrating to see their agency, their fans and sometimes themselves try to deflect that responsibility to someone else.
About the album sales... I honestly pay attention because I am curious, hahahaha... I really do want to know how much they sell, not because I want to judge them on it, but I do want to know if the 'facts' that has been thrown on every single article is factual or just marketing. I do this to TVXQ to, I like having my facts XD
@talking2me
ReplyDeleteinnocent? are you kidding me right now? if you think spreading false rumors, ganging the fans against YH and CM(even going as far as setting up a meeting with moderators of major fan sites just for hating on them) and playing the victim card is innocent, sorry but that's a double standard. i have no tolerance for people like that and if you really think that way when the truth is the other way around sorry to say this but i don't think you fully understood the situation.
i'm not saying you can't be their fan, you can like/support who ever you want that is your choice, but to say they're innocent and hurting is just sugarcoating their betrayal and i think their pity party is getting to you.
@ all
ReplyDeleteTBH, when the news of the split first came out, I felt bad for all of them, especially the trio. I even promised to myself that I will support them no matter what. But as the days went by, I started to realize that there were some missing parts in the puzzle. I looked-up information online and weighted out what the websites were telling me. I then started doubting the trio's credibility in regards to the lawsuit and the whole mess. Then I came across this blog and my suspicions were correct. They played with their fans' emotions and kept acting the role of the "innocent victim." I was further infuriated with the fact that they were ganging up against HoMin, especially when the duo was making a comeback with KYHD. Since then I lost my respect to them as decent human beings.
Do I still support the trio as musicians? Yes. I mean, they were endowed with musical talents so I would let them explore their horizons and support them with whatever musical endeavors they have (producing and writing their songs, etc).
But do I still support their actions? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Like what we always say in philosophy, "The end doesn't justify the mean." Yeah, they are growing as musicians, but what they did and said just to be free of their so-called "slave contract," hurting their friends and brothers in the process, as well as the company that discovered and nurtured their talents, just show how ungrateful they were and that they would just let money and greed get in the way of their decisions.
These are the reasons why I support HoMin now more than ever. I respect them and I support them to the best of my ability. I never questioned their credibility. They are always consistent with the things they say and do. They always show their love to their fans with great sincerity. You never heard them bash against the trio, nor play the "innocent victim" role. If you think that they are heartless for deserting the trio, think again. They have valid reasons (with proofs) why they took that action and decided to stay in their current company. After one statement, they have kept their mouths shut to prevent further damage and conflict. For that, I definitely admire HoMin's patience and kindness.
@LadyYejin
ReplyDeleteIn fact I feel the same way about the trio as you do.I still can't let go of the thought that they didn't do anything to protect their 'brothers'. They can easily ask their fans to leave HoMin alone but not one single word. Be honest, seeing them throw away what they had in TVXQ so easily makes me feel sad. I guess I am just a bit too soft. So please don't take my opinion too seriously. It is just an opinion. :-)
BTW, I read all your comments over last few weeks. They are very interesting insider scoops and have opened up my eyes. Thanks!
@CS_Lady
I guess I shouldn't put their name there. Sorry to make you feel this way. I am happy to take their name out. :-)When I was writing my comment,my thought was that they were caught in-between a take-over war so they were so easily being manipulated because of fame and their greed. However, it doesn't mean they are not responsible for their actions. I found their actions towards HoMin were horrible and dirty. BTW,I am not a fan of the trio and don't see myself will be one for decades to come.
@LadyYejin, @CS_Lady
A little bit about me. I didn't notice TVXQ until I saw Changmin's first drama at beginning of this year and then I watched the KYHD mv which is awesome. So I started to read more about TVXQ and came to find out about the court case and this blog. Therefore, I have never been a TVXQ5 fan and I have never liked the trio. I found how they handle their departure of SM pretty low and down right dirty. In fact, I am very glad to see how the trio are slowly killing off their singing career. (Oops! My evil side is coming out...) And I have tremendous respect to HoMin because their principles,their ethics and their hardworks. In my opinion, HoMin are amazing and they are better off without the trio!
guess who topped oricon monthly????
ReplyDelete:D
TVXQ!!!! \(^^)/
ReplyDeleteCongratulation TVXQ for topping Oricon monthly =D
ReplyDelete@ Lady Yejin, Hyeonmu
I agree with your points. I won’t call CJS traitors or betrayers when they choose to leave SM and TVXQ to start their own careers or business if they felt they were treated unfairly or suffered in SM. I also won’t say that CJS should say something to their fans so that they could stop badmouthing SM and Homin though I’ll like and respect them more if they do that. However, I want them at least stop using this ‘friendship forever’ PR like ‘we could still contact each other’ or ‘I’ve send a message to you now’ or ‘I miss them’ or ‘I’ve dream about both of them’ or ‘please let us contact them’ and so on.
I couldn’t help but think that they are using that PR for their own interests. The extreme or delusional OT5 fans would say things that made Homin look like some kind of Princesses being locked in the dungeon and they need to fight the ‘evil’ witch SM to free Princesses Homin from witch SM’s clutch. If they don’t want to say something to stop the fans, it’s ok; just don’t say something that could make or give fans any more reason to badmouth SM and Homin. It’s good that CJS could stand up for their own rights but that doesn’t mean they have the right to ruin or using others.
I’m glad that Homin don’t insult our intelligence like giving any false hope or promises or doing the ‘friendship forever’ PR when in reality they themselves don’t really know whether TVXQ would be 5 again or what the future hold for them. Homin also never whine or do something that could make fans pity them more because of the break up.
JYJ should start taking responsibilities from their own actions and decisions; stop whining and blaming someone else for their every problem. To me, it seems like they try their hardest to be unhappy and pitiable and I don’t know why they have to do that. I’m sure they had it hard but they are not the only one who have it hard; there are many others who live a much harder life than them. Life is hard; I would like to meet with someone who says it isn’t.
Rather than whining about how pitiful they are, how terrible the others treat them and then start blaming, threatening to sue right and left to SM, Avex, KBS and so on for the whole world to see; why can’t CJS try to approach them first to negotiate to solve the problems; are their pride so high that it’s beneath them to ask for negotiation first? Or they really think that all this time they’ve done no wrong at all and those companies just pick on them for no good reason?
I’m not someone who could sympathize with people that try to look pitiable when they obviously aren’t. I can’t even sympathize with CJS when they said they felt cheated by SM; I could only say blame their own foolishness for being cheated since they signed the contract themselves fully knowing the contents. It seems CJS not only being cheated by SM but also Avex later on; that should say something; why CJS always being cheated by their management companies?
Hehe, I also pay attention to the Gaon sales just to satisfy my curiosity; if they sold as much as they claimed then it’s good. I hope with their good sales, extreme JYJ fans could cease to badmouth SM and Homin but I doubt they would do that.
@talking2me
ReplyDeletewell i am also a new fan :) we got that in common. my comment above was not about any name being used i was just answering for your pity on CJS, you know when you said they're innocent and hurting(there is nothing innocent about what they did/still do and i don't know if they are hurting).
about their music well since i have never listened to their songs i am no one to judge, but in general for me to like someone's music/work i have to relate to it, one could sing about love, peace and friendship but do the exact opposite, you can't see your self relating to that.
i don't wish/want someone's failure but i don't want a person to be successful on the expense of others.
@fc
in my opinion, CJS were not cheated into doing anything, they(and their families) know what the contracts were about before they signed them and i don't know if you have read the earlier posts by precious about the lawsuit but CJS's reason for suing is not the infamous 'slave contract' but their investment on the cosmetics company.
P.S, I am so proud of TVXQ for topping Oricon. there is no stopping them from now on :)
@Cs_Lady
ReplyDelete“It seems CJS not only being cheated by SM but also Avex later on; that should say something; why CJS always being cheated by their management companies?” This is just sarcasm on my part because CJS claimed they felt cheated by SM and Avex. When they said they felt cheated by SM; I thought ok I give them a benefit of doubt that they might be really felt cheated by SM. However, later they claimed they felt cheated by Avex too; well, I wonder if those companies really cheated on them or CJS are the one whose demands are so hard to be pleased or met. On the other hand, Homin could work just fine with SM and Avex. Again I don’t pity CJS coz they signed the contract themselves; they got no one to blame but themselves.
I always wonder when fans say CJS is pitiable. CJS have many luxury things, apartments, cars; they could still sing, sell their albums, appear in magazine, take part in the drama, musical, CF; hold concerts, meet their fans, earn a lot of money and so on. What is so pitiable about them? Not able to see them sing on TV, is that so pitiable? I wonder whether fans pitying themselves or CJS because they aren’t able to see CJS sing on TV. Besides, CJS should know that they would face lots of problems in their Korea activities when they decided to sue SM and not being able to sing on TV is one of consequences of their own decision.
They should be glad since CJS could use that time to rest or partying or enjoy their life instead; don’t they always whine that CJS were worked like a slave and don’t have time or money to enjoy themselves when they were in SM? I begin to think it’s the fans that make their idols to work like a slave instead of their management companies.
It’s also quite ridiculous to see those extreme fans seems so sure that for every problems occurred to JYJ, SM would always be behind them all pulling the strings; they feel the need of creating the eternal enemy for JYJ that much and SM is chosen for that rule. As much as I respect SM, I don’t think SM has that much power to threaten Avex or other broadcasting companies to block JYJ if those companies don’t want to.
@CS_Lady
ReplyDeleteNice to meet you.:-) We are both new fan to TVXQ.Yeah!
Your points are taken and I can understand where you are coming from because I used to think that way too. Now I choose to pity the trio especially after seeing fancam clips of their Spain concert on YouTube. They were great performers before leaving SM but now I can't even find words to describe their performances. How about let's agree to disagree and leave it like that? :-)
Anyway, aren't it great that 'Tone' has sold more than 280k copies in Japan? 20k more to reach 300k. Go TVXQ!
Hi guys! this is a very interesting discussion but what really made me sit up was the comments about how yunho is actually the most popular dbsk (well old dbsk) in korea. (being yunho biased, yayyyyy!)
ReplyDeletecan't believe i almost fell for the "yunho and changmin are the less popular members" comments that were populating forums/sites etc. >.< it should have been obvious right from the start that yunho was, if not the MOST, one of the most popular. can't believe that i almost doubted their popularity. i suppose changmin is indeed the least popular but really, changmin's amazing in all sorts of ways, and he probably has little negative publicity which is good.
thinking about it, yunho really does get more screentime than the others in shows (not too sure about mvs, but he dances in the centre often), and more celebrities 'fawning' (jokingly) over him, it's really quite cute in a way XD. dbsk doesnt appear in variety shows often but when they do, yunho usually gets to talk the most and tell all his funny stories and dance. he sometimes gets invited to shows even without the other members.
tsk tsk. how dare they try to spread such blatant lies?
i have a question though. i've always heard ppl say that yoochun and junsu were the most popular in korea, and i did believe it and thought yunho came in third in popularity. are yc/js only more popular among the dbsk fans? seems like yunho is more popular with the general public. (and being yunho biased, i'm more than happy with it)
Just took a minute to look at the current MAMA votes - TVXQ is currently top in male group dance performance, and only a few dozen votes behind Super Junior in the best male group category. More interestingly, about 30% of their votes are from males. I think their male fan base is growing. :D
ReplyDeleteIt's also excellent news to hear about TONE placing #1 in the monthly ranking - first time ever for a proper studio album, I believe? (I don't count the 2010 Compilation album, lol)
@Precious
Silent reader of a few months, but just wanted to pop out of the wood work to say thank you so very much for all your hard work. I hope one day the truth behind this whole sordid mess will be revealed, but I don't hold out much hope. HoMin are too noble, and JCS are too spineless.
wow a lot of yunho fans here and people talk how yunho is really popular in Korea or Asia^^
ReplyDeleteAnd I dont want to sound selfish or bitter but what about Changmin I know the boy is not popular in Korea or Asia in general but OMG its makes me feel so sad, I know he probably dont care, but he always work so harder bnut people still cant see him. It seem like general public dont care about him no the ot5 fans, maybe he`s just the maknae. I also read a cassiopeia letter and its said something like "when SM want to Jaejoong out of the group and put Siwon, us CASSIOPEIA protest and scream THE ONLY ONE WHO NEED TO LEFT IS CHANGMIN, he`s useless"... I stop believe in cassiopeia love after that.
Sad, for me he`s the most beautiful person, and I can see in his eyes how nice and shy he can be, I admire him for his blunt and smart brain, I admire him for his voice... Why Korean people or Asia people can see this?
Anyway I will keep supportin him no matter what
@kingshim
ReplyDeleteChangmin is not popular???? seriously?? maybe he wasn't in the past, but i think he's very popular now! haha my ultimate bias is yunho but i like changmin very very much too :D
hmm i'm a new fan so i didn't know about jaejoong-siwon-changmin fiasco but can you imagine if siwon really joined dbsk and replaced jaejoong back then?
dbsk would have been the ultimate manly-handsome kpop group hahhaha
not saying jaejoong is ugly, it's just for me his beauty is not exactly masculine...
@kingshim
ReplyDeletechangmin is one of the most attractive pple i have come across and trust me when i say there are alot of pple who believe in that too. hes one of those rare pple whose inner beauty is maintained by the fact that he would never betray someone who trusted him and will always be honest to his true beliefs no matter what others say about them.
i have watched old concerts of TVXQ when they were still 5 and i have seen many changmin fans holding banner with changmin's name and pic to support him, so im sure he has a big loyal following. now is it as big as the others?
changmin during TVXQ5 period was very underrated. initially he was a good singer but not the best, and i think that was mostly because he did not get as much vocal training as the others (remember both junsu and jj spent years at SM before they got to the level they were at vocally). hence u see that he was given very few lines in the old songs. Dancing was not his forte either at that time. he is not a natural dance and on top of that he was not given as much dance training as the others. then there was his very shy and quiet personality which was constantly getting overshadowed by the other members and never given the chance to glow. therefore fans never got to see the real charms of shim changmin. i also think changmin himself did not care much about attention and was more comfortable letting the other members take over. ex look at his outfit during the saipan trip back in 2009. all other members were wearing fashionable cloths that complemented their bodies (even yunho who was only wearing a black sleevless top during some of the filming, but the top really complemented his body and showed off his muscles that got fans going nuts for him). yet changmin stuck to wearing normal everyday cloths that i have probably seen many guys in neighborhood constantly wearing. despite his stunning face structure and natural model look he never stood out against the others because unlike them he never cared about showing off his good looks.
now however during TVXQ2 period u can see that things have changed. first changmin has had 6 years to improve vocally and performance-wise, and boy has he mastered both..if he ever were to debut in the states he would be easily considered one of the best singers out there. the vocal range and clarity that this man has would have set the world on fire (im still gobsmacked as to how SKoreans are still not acknowledging changmin's voice as one of the strongest out there. he has also learned very well how to perfect his dancing that u would never believe this is the same guy from 4 years ago who used to always be positioned at the back during dance segments because of his awkward moves. Also, visually he has learned to take more care with his image. nowdays u never see him wearing anything other than fashionable outfits that show off his newly acquired muscles. he has become one of the most gorgeous looking celebrities out there and believe me when i say many pple are noticing that. his popularity has probably increased ten fold since the comeback, especially in Japan. his fans are always calling out his names during talk shows and concerts that it amazes me how quickly he was able to gain new fans since the comeback. lol while yunho seems to be gaining more male fans by the second ;)
@staceyannez
ReplyDeleteregarding siwon-tvxq i dont knw what would have happened but i get the feeling that tvxq would have never disbanded the way it did. maybe one member would have left but it wouldnt have gone through the same mess it did. at least yunho and changmin would not have felt so alone and ostracized in their beliefs and principles
changmin topic x'D yay!
ReplyDeleteBack when they were five, I always had a feeling that when Changmin says he's the least popular member, it's the truth. When the other members say he's the most popular it's just..for lack of a better word, sarcasm in a jokingly kind of way. With his personality, purposely not getting into the spotlight, shyness, ultimate idol-ninja, etc..it's not a surprise. Evident with the lack of or significantly less amount of stanpics and focus-fancams and news x'D maybe i am just not stanning enough of Changmin-stanners, but it's so obvious even to this day haha but then again, Yunho's popularity as compared to Changmin is like comparing apples to oranges. OR CM-fans are just as passive as I x'D
So hearing CM is the least popular, isn't a surprise for me. As a fan, it's sad and a little disappointing but meh, there's no point on complaining when changmin himself doesn't really care or would rather just be the right-hand man (he is literally and figuratively =D) His push-and-pull strategy with the fans is affecting me way too much LOL It gets frustrating at times x'D
And him being underrated.. OMG yes. So much. He's getting more recognition now. Even for Yunho who's always been just about dance before. I can hear Yunho's voice in songs now. Changmin's voice is more stable and his dance..OMG, Yunho did a very good job training him LOL He is also putting a lot of effort in putting himself out there. Not as much as I want to but it's enough to fill this ahjumma's need LOL That's why I believe this split has been a blessing in disguise for them ^^
What surprised me was JJ's popularity status...I didn't know he wasn't very popular in Korea. I always thought that he was the second most popular especially since he was incharge of the melody and he was always in the center xD
I dunno about Siwom in dbsk though lol I like him but...for me he would've only been in for good looks, mediocre dance, mediocre voice. TVXQ was the creme of the crop, having the complete package: looks, dance and voices of different charismas. *hides from eggs thrown at me by Siwon-stans*
ontopic---
thanks for the trans, Precious. It must have hurt for Byul to be kicked out of her status as admin by those with hidden agendas. There is so much hardwork to run a fansite: fees to pay (lol), modding, dealing with smart-ass trolls, finding topics, keeping the traffic.. it's like a full-time job =D I can just imagine how much work was put into running TVXQ's fan cafe. Pulling the rug from under her must have been so awful. =/
I also found it amazing how fans support their idols. I surprise myself many many times with the amount of time, effort and money I've spent eversince I got into this fandom. xD I've also never heard of this kind of support and stanning etc to our local celebrities. Our most popular local celebrities can still go out and do grocery shopping, buy necessities in 7/11, hang-out in starbucks with little to none security aides. It's crazy. =D
Do you know what i love most about changmin? He is extremely intelligent, wise and he maintains a great sense of balance.
ReplyDeleteMost of the time, he stands precisely at the boundary of political correctness, which many other celebrities often recklessly cross or (too) safely avert. He does not try to hide who he is and what his opinions are, but his conduct and disposition are still within what the general society accepts as proper.
Just look at this quote --> "No matter what chance it is, this is the road I chose. Braving it all for this correct route, if you feel that it’s correct then go ahead and do it well. Then, I hope to show the world that what I have chosen is correct. This is my biggest motivation."
It is the translation of TVXQ's interview in their photobook (credit: SYC). Either the meaning is slightly altered by translation (which is most of the times inevitable), or Changmin is expressly implying something. Lol as I said...he's too witty.
@fc
ReplyDeleteoh you were being sarcastic lol i get it now.well what they should do is own up to their actions and leave DBSK alone.
@precious
are you going to write an article about the change of CJS's stance, you know before and after DBSK's comeback. i really want to know about their different strategies and techniques of misleading fans, and can you please delete troll comments.
hellowwww
ReplyDeleteAH SORRY I tried previewing my comment but it was posted oh no...
ReplyDeleteI was a silent reader...I wanna say thanks to precious for writing this blog..This is very insightful...and sorry again for the accidental comment above, I did not intend to spam..
Is anyone watching TVXQ in taiwan? The tickets are so expensive..
Yay, Gaon Monthly Oct Chart has (finally) been revealed!! And from what i see, there's no group sells more than 300.000 except for Super Junior. Well well, i wonder what (another) excuses will CJS fans bring?? That Gaon hasn't counted Black Vers yet?? LOL :)))))
ReplyDeleteOooppps, sorry fot trolling. I just can't help it! >:P
@Summer
ReplyDeletethanks for the update..i knw some pple here dont like to see posts about JYJ's sales and im sorry about this but i was really curious about whether the sales will match up with what their company has been harping about for the past months. i have no problem whether they sell a million copies or 1 copy only, but what i do find interesting is how their fans will twist their words once again to suit the situation they are in right now.
i will never forget how their stans would pretend to be OT5 fans and troll TVXQ's vids after news of the 300K copies were released just to say that "oh poor HoMin will never win any award cuz their sales were bad but JYJ already sold 300K so they will surely win the biggest end of the year award over SUJU". TVXQ's vids were flooded with such comments when these articles came out, and if u were to search yunho or changmin's names on twitter u would get these same comments too as if the stans cannot post such tweets without dragging down yunho and changmin with their delusions.
i really wonder what new excuse they will come up with to these results. i have already seen some JYJ fans getting fed up with CJeS's reports about the 300K but they would hide it by say "oh well SM also releases such reports" but difference is that SM's values always match up with the total sales, and sometimes the sales end up surpassing the original expected value (ex Mirotic)
srry if im offending anyone but its getting really annoying seeing those fake OT5 trolling TVXQ2 vids to this day to post comments patronizing HoMin by showing off how much better JYJ are doing right now.
@SarahM
ReplyDeleteBtw, do you know that TVXQ KYHD sold more than JYJ In Heaven?
www.6theory(.)com/forum/index.php/topic/61016-gaon-album-sales-october/
See the picture that OP provides.
TVXQ KYHD total 244128
JYJ In Heaven 218367
Not only the JYJ's sales is far from 300,000 that CJeS keeps harping, but their sales also lower than TVXQ. Unless CJeS buys back the CD and/or JYJ fans buy more, JYJ won't be able to beat TVXQ sales (& will never be able to beat SuJu sales). So fake OT5 & JYJ fans can shut up. TVXQ don't need JYJ at all, proved by Oricon charts & Gaon charts.
@kirsch87
ReplyDeletethanx for putting the actual numbers..i had no idea that KYHD has sold a total of 244,128 copies..i thought it was somewhere like 230K..
btw JYJ sales are very impressive especially considering the fact that the album had no promotion, then again it was their choice when they refused to send the songs for review. i think they played it smartly. they knew that they had a big loyal following that will buy their materials no matter what so there is no need for them to waste money on promo when they can achieve such high sales at such a low cost. they may even reach TVXQ's sales by the end of the year if their fans began a bulk buying project.
i think SUJU is unstoppable this year, but there are special circumstances for this. i have a very strong feeling though that SM is preparing for a huge TVXQ comeback next year that will probably be promoted as heavily (if not more) than mirotic. KYHD album was done to test the waters and re-establish the brand the way it is today, but the promo was noticeably weaker than the promo groups like SNSD and SUJU have received, and much much weaker than the promo Mirotic got.
SM is playing it smart too with TVXQ by sending them all over asia and involving them in concerts in US and europe to establish a strong international fanbase and remind their former fans of their strength. this way when the time comes for the next comeback (which im hopping will be around the end of next year) the fans will be ready and united in their support.
@summer, @sarahm, @kirsch87
ReplyDeleteI found it kinda ironic that none of us would even talk about their album sales if it wasn't for antis/haters who comes and trolls how bad TVXQ is doing when compared to JYJ, even when all TVXQ statistic is given by actual reports with proof while the 300,000/350,000 they keep flinging around is still not showing ANYWHERE.
They just simply can't be happy for JYJ that they have to make every accomplishment about SM or TVXQ... I honestly think it is quite sad.
@sarahm
I love your last comment. I do hope to see Yunho and Changmin grow and shine even brighter next year... It will be interesting to see where they take TVXQ ^___^
@Hyeonmu:
ReplyDeleteAgree, he whole issue about JYJ's sale is not so much trying to prove that they cant sell much but the fact that with the NO's that CJeS keeps throwing around , the antis come knocking at TVXQ"s door and thats why I am interested to know the numbers so I can put these people in their rightful places.
Also with the the repackaged album , TVXQ sold close to 300K which is not a small achievement considering the obstacle they faced with the boycotting, a CO might support you but its the masses that buy your product and we know how some fake fans turned their backs on them.
Anyway kudos to the top three on Gaon!
congratulations for 244K for WHY-KYHD! and 303K combined sales of WHY and BUG!
ReplyDelete@sarahM
i don't think KYHD promo can be compared with Mirotic promo at all. what they were able to do with a 5-member group, like splitting the boys and sending them off to different shows, they could hardly do with the 2 boys, especially when people were still getting used to the idea of them being a duo. the promos were also stretched at a period of 4 months and there was even a 2-week break before BUG was released (unlike the usual 2-months non-stop promo, like SJ's Mr. Simple+A-cha). their situation as a controversial duo in 2011 is very different from when they were a quintet in 2008, so i don't think it was weaker than Mirotic promo, just done with some very careful treading and approach.
@Reema
ReplyDeleteWith repackage album,TVXQ KYHD sell 303,213 albums. (With repackage, SuJu sell 441,227, crazy). Anyway, I'm happy for TVXQ ^^~
Current top 3 Gaon in order: SuJu, TVXQ, SNSD (The Boys 227,994)
http://www.6theory(.)com/forum/index.php/topic/61016-gaon-album-sales-october/page__st__260
(read: kristal jung post)
(I believe this is correct, but you can see Gaon website if there's any doubt.)
@Reema
ReplyDeleteSo true... Somehow these antis keep bringing JYJ to put TVXQ down then they get confused when TVXQ fans actually got up and speak up... They use any accomplishment of JYJ to bash SM, then they bring Yunho and Changmin as TVXQ into the mix. I don't mind them being proud of JYJ, heck, if I'm a fan I would be too, but then they drag other fandoms into things and that irks me badly, LOL.
@Cat1177
Completely agreed. Right now TVXQ is in a different situation, so they can't do things that a quintet can do, but I do think that SM and AVEX has done a good job promoting them in terms of their work.
I do like the direction TVXQ seems to be going. SM is marketing them as a mature, sophisticated, smart and talented young men, which they are.
PS. Did you see them with Dolce and Gabbana? OMG...
@all
No matter what people say about SM, they got to admit that SM's artists are still the highest selling in terms of physical albums. SuJu, TVXQ and SNSD are the top three according to GAON up to October.
And JYJ fans might not admit it, but a good number of their fanbase also became fans when the three were still members of TVXQ under SM... Even though they are no longer with SM, they can't deny that SM is also played a part in where they are right now. So SM is obviously doing something right.
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteur right. SM was being careful and tactic which is why i said in my earlier post that they were playing it right. i think i should not have used the word "weak". maybe the word "less" would have been better.
of course its much more understandable. like u said there was huge controversy surrounding TVXQ's comeback compared to before and i think yunho's expression at winning that first award on their comeback stage is a telltale of how they didnt even expect such results because of the negativity surrounding them before the comeback.
business-wise it would have been stupid of SM to promote KYHD heavily like mirotic when they had no idea how things would fare, and whether pple would accept TVXQ the way it is today. remember BoA with all her glory and past accomplishments has struggled alot with her last album. same with Rain's album rainisim who many stated had the weakest sales out of all his albums despite the insane promo he had then.
ur also right about the fact that with 5 pple u can rotate and send different members to do shows, although correct me if im wrong yunho was present in every single show tvxq appeared in to promote mirotic except for one (was it star king?). i think this scale of promo could be done with the next album but it will require loads of hard work and stamina.
like i said, SM was definitely testing the waters with this comeback and allowing TVXQ to re-establish its new image. both goals have been achieved. next will be the real comeback and frankly im super excited about the next album even though we still havent heard a thing about it :P
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteand physically 2 people can only do so much. i'm just happy that the boys and SM achieved what they set out to do with KYHD, which was to restart their activities as a duo. it probably wasn't even about album sales or #1's at that time, it was just to get the 2 of them out there again.
p.s. yes! but i don't like their D&G suits T^T. instead i'm ogling at their MTVK interview. Changmin has been promoted by Yunho to "partner"! haha! (after "hyung" and "friend")
@sarahM
no doubt their next album will be given the best promo, especially after TONE's success...and Yunho is 27/26.. he will have to go to the army in a couple of years i reckon /tears
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteI do find their suits quite... Bleeeh (although the boys looks good as always)... But who knows... Maybe D&G will be tempted to do a 'friendship contract' with TVXQ... Ho ho ho...
Let's toast to Changmin's promotion!!! In less than a year he went from magnae to partner, not bad boy! I really do love the chemistry and the partnership between them... You can see both of them complimenting and supporting each other.
Their improvement and growth is probably their biggest achievement this year... So GO TVXQ!!!
@Hyeonmu
ReplyDeleteoh dear how could we have forgotten "wife"!! rofl!
@cat1177
ReplyDeleteThe promotion for Changmin should be like this:
Annoying fella --> magnae --> friend --> wife & partner
@SarahM @Hyeonmu and @all : Aaaahhh, the "no promotion" thingy, somehow it's one of the best and the most common excuses that CJS fans (oftenly) bring to defend their oppas' album sales. It makes me thinkin, while i don't even know that Westlife has a new album this year, and i can't even "feel" any promotion in my country, they still sell good and make some money from their loyal fans, thanks to the World Concert and fanmeet activities so fans are aware of their new album.
ReplyDeleteJust like CJS did, while concerts will automatically boost up their popularity and help the promotion, it also gives them lots of money from tix sales and sponsors. Not to mention their hardcore fans who will definitely buy anything their oppas serve. What a brilliant moves!!
And don't forget abt twitter pro(e)motion!! Nowadays, twitter can deliver news and issues even faster than news site. That's why lots of American artists use twitter, blog, or website to promote rather than tv or radio. Yep my friend, twitter is indeed "that ininfluencial" :)) LOL
The problem is, with the "lack" of the promotion, JYJ seems to half-heartedly deliver their "genious" into the album. While their current album is not so bad for my taste, i guess it's too overrated to say thay IH album is a masterpiece. It's maybe because their music is not my taste, but i'm pretty confident to say that their album is not that "brilliant". Sorry if my comment is too offended. :)
@summer
ReplyDeleteI guess it all depends on how they define promotions...
I guess for CJeS and the fans, photobook, individual activities, news articles, concerts, and fanmeets are not considered promotions. I guess for some, promotions is limited to appearing on TV as a group, singing their songs in music shows as a group, getting charted for it and invited by every single variety show on earth... By that definition, then no, they haven't done any promotion whatsoever.
Funnily... Tohoshinki's Best Collection 2010 is their least promoted album do to almost no public appearance as a group whatsoever... Yet it still sells a spectacular number... Guess Tohoshinki is just that awesome.
About the Gaon chart TVXQ has disadvantage.
ReplyDelete1)~55k KYHD album (japanese version) sold in Japan are NOT counted in Gaon. If you add this number the total sales will be 350K++. Please take note although KYHD (korean version) also sell in Japan but Japanese fans opt to buy japanese version more, so the korean version sales was small.
2) On the other hand, In Heaven only available in korean version, so about 38K korean version sold in Japan are counted in Gaon.
If In Heaven deduct the sales in Japan 218k-38k =180K <--- this is the number should be used to compare with 303K of KYHD.
Consider this:
- Made comeback after 2 years inactive in Kpop scene.
- Suffer from more than half of the members left the group, And many of jyj biased fans left TVXQ that makes their fan base reduced tremendously.
- The so called OT5 fan site even allow people to spread boycott KYHD message, threaten whoever support KYHD album is hurting JYJ.
I have not seen any group gone through similar situation and still able to deliver epic performance and sales result like TVXQ. Remember these 2 guys were once recognized (by some people) as the less talented, the non main members of TVXQ!!!
I'm happy with the result, they considered themselves as a 'new group' and TVXQ's journey has just begun and i look forward to their next album.
Yaaaahh!!! It seems like my "long" comment is considered as a spam> Dear recious, please recover it T_T
ReplyDelete@all
Intermezzo, it makes me giggle to see that the infamous JYJ (trolling) site is updating CJS news like every hour, but there's NO news abt Gaon Monthly Oct chart. Fishy fishy.. LOL :))
@ cat1177
ReplyDeleteYunHo is just 25, not 27/26. Let us not send him to the army immediately. LOL.
@ all
I was really amazed the first time I saw KYHD still charting on Gaon. I just had the "WOW!" expression on my face for a couple of hours. So proud of their accomplishments.
I have to agree with the others had said. KHYD is their "test-run" to see how people will react and receive TVXQ as a duo. Oh well! To those antis, all I can say is "In Your Face!"--> No matter what you do, TVXQ will always comeback stronger than ever. Now I can't wait for their Korean comeback (hopefully next year). I'm definitely buying all the versions of their next album.
^ Yunho's Korean age is 26 and since he's an early 86'er that means he's grouped with 85'ers so they sometimes refer to his age as 27. it's crazy he always talks about getting old and stuff, when he's only really 25. but he's in that age where he has to start planning things around his military service.
ReplyDelete@ cat1177
ReplyDeleteRight now, I don't want to pay attention to his Korean age. I know he has to start planning for his military service, but I would prefer to just think about his future performances with Changmin and the whole career of TVXQ. Let's not think about the military service right now. Let's just enjoy TVXQ and their upcoming Japanese single "Winter Rose." =)
@dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteoh i don't mean that we should all stop enjoying their activities and just start fretting over the day he has to enlist. i just mentioned it in passing and it won't be in the near future.
@dengelmaster21 & cat1177
ReplyDeleteI just hope that when Yunho serves the military, Changmin will continue solo and vice versa. (while continue to promote TVXQ ^^~)
I might be in the minority... but when the time comes, I hope Changmin starts his service one year after Yunho does. It will be one year without either for TVXQ, but also one year sooner with both of them together back in action.
ReplyDelete@ Illecandra
ReplyDeleteI'm also wondering what's going to happen with Changmin once Yunho enlists in the army. But I like your idea. It's better if their enlistment will overlap. The sooner they finish their service, the sooner they will be back on the scene. I highly doubt SM will let both of them to enlist at the same time, but it is just my opinion. SM might still consider letting them enlist at the same time (like the hip-hop duo Untouchable did). *shrugs*
@Illecandra, @dengelmaster21
ReplyDeleteI personally like them serving together, call me a romantic but I do want to see them leave together and return together, LOLOLOL
But even if they don't, I am pretty sure they can keep busy with individual activities during that time... At least this time we can wait with an assurance that they are away by their own choice in the service of their country, instead of not understanding why or not knowing how long...
One thing the whole fiasco of the past two years should teach us is, make every moment count, and offer them our love and our support as best as we can... TVXQ FIGHTING!!!
@all
ReplyDeleteI guess they can still produce 2 Koreans albums and 1 Japanese album before enlisted. Oh and i hope SM will manage to produce an international album for them too. Yunho and Changmin should improve their english pronounciation from now on. Anybody here would like to voluntarily help them?? LOL
Anw, i routinely checked JYJ fansite out of curiousity. They already published Gaon Monthly Oct Chart article and the comments were..... *facepalm*.
But at least YAY for the significant decrease of SM trolling comments. But there's a funny comment which says that according to Wiki, The Beginning Album sold like 1,2 mio. Oh well! LOL :))
Sorry again for trolling. *peace*