Saturday, February 12, 2011

Analyzing 6.25 meeting

The reason I waited a few days before analyzing the 6.25 meeting was to let the readers to read the translation first without my input. I was confident that any objective minded person could easily determine what the meeting was about, and the readers' comments seem to confirm my belief.

It is probably not really necessary for me to post anything about the meeting because the translation itself speaks volumes, and I'll most likely be repeating what the readers, have already said, but here it goes. 

Participants of the meeting
Junsu's father, Yuchun's mother and Jaejoong's sister and the administrators of CJS's fan cafes (clearly stated in file 1 @ 1:00)

The parents claim the meeting is to dispel rumors and to talk about the truth, but the meeting doesn't really talk much about any specific rumors.

They talk about trying to keep TVXQ as 5, but most of the times are spent on talking how the group is already split into 3 and 2. To really get that point across, they emphasize that they're holding onto 1% chance of keeping all 5, implying there's 99% chance of the group breaking up.

The rest of the meeting is about how HoMin agreed to leave together but changed their mind at the last minute after getting special treatment from SM, how SM is trying to divide the group, and problems with the contract and SM's refusal to accept any change, putting ALL the blame for the breakup on SM and HoMin.

Around the end of the meeting, the participants discuss how to "defend" the rumors, but in reality, they are talking about how to "spread" the rumors that was created in the meeting.

Most of the readers who read my blog are fans of TVXQ, and know first hand how a fan's mind works.

Imagine yourself in that meeting, you are one of the administrators of CJS's fan sites, which mean you are a devoted fan of CJS, and you are listening to the parents of CJS talking to you. Do you trust them? I bet you do. Also, they have emphasized that CJS personally requested the meeting by calling their parents early in the morning magnifying the urgency of the matter, so of course you'd trust what's being said in the meeting.

They also stir the fans' emotion by saying things like how the members have suffered, crying during the concert, and Jaejoong feeling like dying earning the fans' sympathies. As CJS fans, they must've felt extremely nervous and urgent, feeling the need to do something to protect their idols from "evil" company that's trying to split the group.

Now it's time to take a closer look at what's said in the meeting.

Let me list some of the rumors/lies said in the meeting.

* HoMin changed their mind in one hour after getting offers of individual activities from SM.
* HoMin's parents had a meeting to spread rumors before 6.25 meeting
* SM is trying to divide TVXQ
* SM is using Crebeau just as an excuse
* Crebeau has nothing to do with the split
* Problem with the contract - 9:1 profit, 13 years contract - 15 including military service

Do claims listed above sound familiar? Those are often used to blame HoMin and SM for the breakup, and I'm sure many readers heard those many times already. It's simply amazing that the rumors created from a meeting in Korea over one and a half year ago are still used to bash HoMin by some people even without any proof to support those claims.

Let me go over them one by one in detail.

[HoMin changed their mind in one hour after getting offers of individual activities from SM]

It's hard to believe that HoMin would change their mind on something as big as breaking up TVXQ in one hour. Also, it's hard to imagine that SM would find out about them leaving, and somehow promise HoMin individual activities to lure them back within that one hour. Even if it is assumed that HoMin had second thoughts about leaving, it should take more than one hour to make the decision. It's a decision that could affect the rest of their life, but they're claiming HoMin made that decision in one hour. If I were HoMin, I'd at least consult my lawyers, talk to my parents, and talk about it with CJS. There's no way I'd change my mind in one hour after agreeing to leave SM together.

Also, many fans argue that CJS won't breakup TVXQ for a cosmetics business, but they have no problem believing that HoMin would betray their friends and possible future of TVXQ for a mere commercial and a drama. Does that make sense?

As for HoMin's individual activities, TVXQ's individual activities were already planned in advance. This is the Avex's Max Matsuura's article posted on Dec 2009.

http://max.syncl.jp/?p=diary&di=283193

It talks about Junsu's solo work, and it also lists other member's planned individual activities. The activities listed are: Yunho, Changmin and Jaejoong's drama, Jaejoong & Yuchun's solo singles. But most importantly, it stated the activities were planned since the beginning of the year. 

Want to see another proof? How about one from Junsu himself?


The above is Junsu's interview from Elle Japan magazine around May 2010, and it talks about his solo project, and in that interview, he mentions that solo projects for each members were planned since 2009 (unit activities and drama), so he was aware of each member's individual activities.
So individual activities were planned for all 5 members, not just HoMin.


[HoMin's parents had a meeting to spread rumors about CJS before 6.25 meeting]
This was the excuse given by Junsu's father and Jaejoong's sister for 6.25 meeting, and it is the sole reason why people claim there was a 6.23 meeting. This claim in itself doesn't make sense, but I am going to make a separate post about the 6.23 meeting.

Also notice when Junsu's father talks about rumors spread from HoMin's father's meeting with HoMin fan's admins [File 2 @ 2:02], he gives an example of badmouthing Jaejoong by comparing with Yunho being the leader in Korea. That's a pretty sneaky way of provoking individual fans knowing how competitive they could be.

[SM is trying to divide TVXQ]
This is such a ridiculous claim. They're saying SM wants to split TVXQ and kick out the 3 because of the cosmetics business. SM is in the business of making money, and TVXQ is their biggest product. There's no way SM would break up TVXQ for the cosmetics business. Anyone familiar with how businesses operate would know this doesn't make sense at all. When I post about the lawsuits, the readers will find out that SM tried its best to bring the 3 back to keep TVXQ intact. SM would be the last one that would want to break up TVXQ.

[SM is using Crebeau just as an excuse]
[Crebeau has nothing to do with the breakup]
I already posted many times about this subject. If any of the readers didn't read my posts about the business, read these posts: http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/p/cosmetics-business.html

Jaejoong's sister says that he was not involved in the business in April [File 2 @ 7:09], but there's a video of Jaejoong promoting the products filmed in January. Check out Jaejoong's "Body exuding beauty video"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHBSOomdSQ

[Problem with the contract - 9:1 profit, 13 years - 15 including military service]
Jaejoong's sister's claim of TVXQ getting 1 from 9:1 profit distribution is a flat out lie. According to the contract, TVXQ gets 70% of net profit from overseas activities.
http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2010/12/translation-of-contract-profit.html

Also notice that Jaejoong's sister stated that she was surprised about the profit after seeing the contract. [File 3 @ 3:00] Then Junsu's father immediately corrects her saying they never saw the contract. Then later on when a fan asks how they found out about the 9:1 distribution, he simply says he happened to hear SM's president saying it.  [File 4 @ 3:44]

About the 13 year contract, Junsu's father contradicts himself. He says 13 year contract is not bad, but when asked by a fan about it, he states it's too much for the kids and make the 13 year term seems longer by including the military service that has nothing to do with SM. Whether you're in SM or not, every man has to serve in the military in Korea. There are many articles or arguments made by anti-SM people talking about the contract term being 15 years including the military service to make it seem longer than it is. Where do you think that idea came from?

Also remember the parents wanted to keep the 13 year contract, and I posted about it.
http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2010/12/about-13-year-term-is-it-really-that.html

When a fan asked Junsu's father if the contract was ever changed, he said it never did. [File 4 @ 0:00] But the injunction judgment clearly shows that the contract was amended 5 times. Also, the contract itself shows that it was modified 5 times, so that's another lie. Notice the last modification was done in February 6. CJS filed a lawsuit in less than 6 months after they signed an amendment.

신청인
최초계약
1차
부속합의
2차
부속합의
3차
부속합의
4차
부속합의
5차
부속합의
김재중
Jaejoong 
2003.5.14
2003.12.3
2007.2.16
2007.12
2008.10.29
2009.2.6.
2003.12.3.
2000.2.12
김준수
Junsu 
2004.1.12.
2003.6.30
박유천
Yuchun 



Now let me talk about other subjects discussed from the meeting.

In the beginning of File 3, Junsu's father talks about SM already taken measures to stop their activities in Korea, and CJS working only in Japan after leaving SM. They already knew CJS won't be able to work in Korea, and were planning to work only in Japan. I know SM is a capable company, but already blocking CJS's activities in Korea in that short period of time? Also, SM probably didn't know that CJS were filing a lawsuit for sure until they got the notice in June 24th. HoMin's parents' statement also states they didn't know about the lawsuit.

Here's an interview from CJS's lawyer Lim Sang Hyuk.

http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=kmi&arcid=0002115777&cp=du

He was interviewed after the injunction judgment was granted, and here's an excerpt from the interview above.
  
임 변호사 역시 처음엔 가처분을 생각지 못했다. “처음 상담할 땐 ‘계약무효 판결은 받을 수 있다. 다만, 한동안 활동을 못할 수 있다’고 알려줬어요. 2명이 참여하지 않은 데에는 이런 이유도 있을 겁니다. 차후 법률 검토를 하면서 가처분을 해봐야겠다는 생각이 들었죠.” 

Lawyer Yim also didn't think about the injunction initially. "When I consulted them first, I told them 'It is possible to get a judgment to void the contract, but you may not be able to work for a while.' That could be one of the reasons why the 2 didn't join. I thought about filing the injunction while reviewing the laws later on."

The lawyer states he advised CJS about the possibility of not being able to work during the lawsuit. Junsu's father also mentions about getting legal consultation in the 6.25 meeting. [File 5 @ 1:11]

So they knew they couldn't work in Korea during the lawsuit, and already planned to work only in Japan to begin with, but used that information against SM to make them look "evil". The lawsuit is still going on because of them delaying the lawsuit, but the fans are still blaming SM even today for blocking CJS's activities even though CJS already knew about it.
http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-is-this-lawsuit-taking-so-long.html

One other thing to note is that in the beginning of the interview, he states that he never met Changmin.
“(웃음) 이거 보도되면 안 되는데… 얼굴을 몰랐어요. 찾아온다기에 오전 내내 뮤직비디오랑 사진을 컴퓨터에 띄워놓고 얼굴과 이름을 외웠죠. 최강창민과 영웅재중이 끝까지 헷갈렸는데 다행히(?) 최강창민이 안 왔더군요.”  

"(Laugh) This shouldn't go on the news... I didn't know their faces. I was told they'd come so I played music videos and pictures on the computer all morning to memorize their faces and names. I still was confused between Max Changmin and Hero Jaejoong, but fortunately (?), Max Changmin didn't come." 

This also refutes the claim of HoMin leaving SM together. I highly doubt anyone would decide to leave SM and file a lawsuit without consulting the lawyer who's handling the case.

Going back to Japanese activities, we all know how active CJS were in Japan without HoMin after the injunction judgment was given until Avex suspended them, and only then CJS and the fans started to complain about their Korean activities.

Now let's go over the claim of CJS wanting to keep 5. The parents state they want to keep TVXQ as 5, but eventually, they always come back to the members already split into 3:2. Before this meeting, there were only rumors of TVXQ's breakup, but during the meeting, the breakup is pretty much confirmed by the parents. Then throughout the meeting, they blame HoMin, HoMin's parents, and SM for the breakup. So to the CJS's fans attending the meeting, the only way to keep the 5 is for HoMin to leave SM, and that's the 1% of hope that's left.

CJS are willing to quit Crebeau, then why didn't they? Because of the contract? But we know the contract is not that bad. The profit distribution is definitely not 9:1, and the 13-year term was signed voluntarily.

It was stated that the 5 decided to either stay together or leave together, so when HoMin changed their mind, why didn't the 3 agree to stay in SM? Another conflicting statement.

So this is what CJS's parents were telling the fans gathered in the meeting.

"TVXQ is going to breakup, and it's all because of HoMin and SM, and we're holding this meeting in response to HoMin's parents meeting spreading malicious rumors, so unless HoMin leaves SM with us, TVXQ is 99% done. Did we mention it was HoMin's fault, and they betrayed CJS?"


So after CJS's fans were fed with those information, what did they do? That's coming next.

160 comments:

  1. :O people still use the same excuses....
    hopefully this lawsuit will end soon.

    Thanks Precious AGAIN :D

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    1. i don't know if precious is really naive or too biased wih SM. SM knows everything that happends in his own agency, everything, so "SM didn't know about it until they filled the lawsuit" that really sound improbable. and then you say "Homin wouldn't chance their minds in less than an hour" you don't know that, maybe they were pushed to do it. i think you should take the both sides and think more objective.
      thank you very much for this information but i think you're starting to use Homin's name to put fans agains the other 3. your love for SM is showing too much- sorry for the bad english

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  2. Claps claps claps..good story & good actors/actress. Really, this is more interesting than any Kdrama ever. I believe, it will be got highly rating. Your analysis make sense, Precious. Thank you for doing this so far. Good luck for your next post. Can't wait! Your blog makes me addict. Hahaha..

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  3. This is so interesting to read. Thank you for posting and for making so much sense! I love how you go through everything so methodically. Because while it is very obvious to me what went on, it will take an act of God to make other fans realize this.

    Love this blog :)

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  4. Thanks much for your hard works, Precious. (I have wanted to say this for a long time but did not manage to do it.) I second Ahmad that your analysis makes sense. Btw, I have a question regarding the amendment of the contract. So, does it mean that Junsu's parents amended it for five times but the parents of the other two did not do it since 2004?

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  5. Thank you for confirm my belief of of this meeting. You explained the argument in very easy to understand way/method, and of course tie in really well with the whole things (the consistency of all the things HoMin and Sm claimed like you mentioned).

    "So after CJS's fans were fed with those information, what did they do? That's coming next." hmmm... I'm not sure if I wanna know this >..< might be bad for my heart, blood pressure, or health... but of course there is no way I'm able to skip the this post LOLS.... your blog is addicting XD

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  6. wohoo,this story getting better and better,looking forward to your next post.
    this is why outer appearance can "deceive" some1,every1 who looks like an "angel" always depicts as an innocent LOL.
    i believe 5 of them of course have a good personality but doesnt mean some of them cant change to be evil.
    even before knowing the real reason as stated in this blog, for some1 who is still in their rational mind, just 3 from 5 of them who filed the lawsuit cuz unfair contract,it didnt make sense, if it were really unfair didnt u think it should be all of them filed the lawsuit, as much as homin probably felt thankful to SM i didnt think they wanted to treat that way and especially when parents also involved.
    the damage is done and tvxq will never be the same again if they reunite once more someday.
    btw, off topic, why just CJS that always say AKTF?(i know these words are JJ and Yoochun's tattoo)but i never hear homin say that,i guess thats just CJS slogan

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  7. @Precious...

    This is awesome... hahahaha... and yeah, I think the most glaring point people missed is the emotional reaction of fans who gathered that day. Let's just be honest, fangirls are emotional, it's the truth, I am one of them.

    Thank you again for providing the translation, especially without an analysis... This way I can read and judge for myself what happened that night and what effect it might have to the fandom instead of having you spoon-feeding us what to think. I think that's the main problem with a lot of International fans, they rely on interpretation and articles written by other people rather than reading and asking themselves what this is all about.

    Looking forward to your next post ^____^

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  8. You're assumptions in the end of articles, expressed by ''I highly doubt it'' and ''There's no way SM would'' and so on, are biased, sorry.

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  9. @oksi-chan
    Why are you sorry?? Of course it's a little bias. Precious has never denied which side he leans towards. But no offense if you have ever worked in this business you would no that the assumptions are most likely true. There is no way possible that SM would be able to get authorization from all the parties required to offer them more incentives to stay within an hour.Not only that but wanting to break up your most profitable resource that is simply ludicrous no one in this industry would actually want that. You would try everything in your power to keep them together. How much money you could make in the future would outweigh what you could lose keeping them together as 5 right now. That is just good business sense. The crebeau thing as well it has been proven to be true so SME is not using it as just an excuse. Honestly most of this stuff is common sense to figure out if you have read it and listened to it. You can clearly see that the family members are heard contradicting themselves more then once and spreading rumors about the 2 without anyone to defend there side of the story. While yes there is bias Precious has already provided the original Korean version and a translation of the meeting if you wish to not read his analysis go to those posts instead. It clearly states at the beginning of the post Analyzing 6.25 meeting which means most likely there with be self expressed opinions and bias which we get in JYJ fan-sites as well so it should hurt no one to read it here as well. At least precious is expressing his opinions based on the facts provided rather then grabbing things from thin air which many other fans of both sides have done.

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  10. you should really be nominated for Blog of the year
    I wonder how much time you devoted for this issues alone, it's detailed, provide proof, accurate ... I love it so much.
    Fans are emotional, sometime i wonder if they ever have individuality, it's like they eat everything their bias feed them regardless it's good or bad.

    @oksi-chan: yes Precious is bias, he admits it him self. Other than that, do you have any complain about the content of his post? I don't think so.

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  11. @oksi-chan:Precious might be biased but still can provide the real reasons why he's biased. And he don't force you to believe his opinions either. So put ur complain somewhere else. Thank u. :)

    @Precious: Thanks. :)
    I think even before u analyze the 625 meeting. With full translation of urs, ppl w/ logic can already see the contradictions inside the meeting. Especially the part where the parents said tht SME tried to split the group and kick CJS. If SME really intend to kick CJS, they won't wait for CJS for more than 1 year. Where the parents kept repeating couple of times how tvxq has split into 3:2.

    This drama has not even reached the bottom, but its already messing up the biggest fandom. Gosh! what a gripping story XDD

    Thanks once again.

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  12. @precious
    I do have to say thank you for putting up all the original information. Since I don't live in Asia anymore it's often too time consuming for me to go through everything just to find the right articles that are actual facts rather then opinion posts. But thanks to you I don't have to even try anymore since you put all the originals and where you got them from out there for us to read ourselves. It's very nice of you to put your effort in for us so we can look at all the proof ourselves and form an opinion. Regardless of all the stuff I hear from friends from back in Korea is still nice to see the information right in from of me.

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  13. @Precious : I got this post from my twitter account it's regarding TVXQ LAWSUIT. It's quite interesting, i don't know who make it but credit to telzon TVXQ. I just want you and your blog readers read this. I just believe that sooner or later the truth will appear. Please enjoy reading. Thank you.

    http://twitpic.com/3zaqs2

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  14. I think SM didn't know anything about the lawsuit until June 24th . The composer of "Miss You" said that SM The Ballad was originally Junsu,Kyuhyun from SJ and Jonghyun from SHINee. He even said the recording for the album was completed,but 2 months before SM The Ballad's debut album supposed to be released,the lawsuit happened.

    This is that composer's blog:
    http://blog.paran.com/daiki/43380331

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  15. @ oksi-chan

    LOL

    and you based your judgment on ''I highly doubt it'' and ''There's no way SM would.''

    I think the one who is biased it you since you seem to be selective xD

    What Precious has mentioned is undeniable.... and if you kept thinking in that way without letting your mind perceive the whole picture YOU are the one who will end up with a biased conclusion.

    @ Precious

    Thank you again for your hard work :D

    @ kenda
    xD
    yeah the bolg of the year ~

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  16. This is so heartbreaking-How can these 3 sleep at night after having done the unthinkable_I was always on the fence on this whole issue but after carefully reading all your posts it is so very clear that the 3 were only thinking about themselves-while walking all over HoMin-Gosh my heart breaks for Yunho and Changmin esp.Yunho seeing how attached he was to JYJ esp one person in particular-and yet JYJ act so innocent, and have clearly pushed their fans into thinking that they are fighting for injustice-what a charade...sorry for this rant-its just too much to digest..btw thank you Precious for putting the info out there so that we can decide where the truth lies.

    PS: Is there any possibility that they were bulldozed by family members to file the suit?

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  17. @Reema
    I did think of that possibility too but regardless you can only blame so much on family. They are grown young men who have to take responsibility for there actions and the consequences that come from them.

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  18. @kohei007
    I think there's only a date for the final 3 revision cause the contract was revised on the same day for all members, even HoMin thus only 1 date is reflected in each column.

    @precious
    Another fantastic analysis yet again. We all forgot that fangirls being fangirls get overly emotion over their oppas, when the most minute of things happen, what more now. Especially when those words are coming from the mouths of their beloved oppas family member's mouths.

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  19. @justine - ah...i see ...thanks much. ^^

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  20. @precious
    homin's parent meeting? you mean meeting with fans?
    i never heard that.

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  21. I can't help but think that this is all very sad. They will never be close again. Cjs destroyed their close friendship with homin and a band at its height of fame, because they thought they would achieve more on their own and while they achieved a lot its nowhere near what they would have achieved as tvxq5. And they worked so hard for it with sweat and tears. Why did they not work it out with sm privately? Why did they not heed sm's warnings about crebeau? I think they would have earned more money than any money they made from crebeau products and the concerts put together. They had started to earn big money from 2009. I've noticed that Jaejoong seems very unhappy nowadays. I don't know if its because he's not very busy or he regrets some of the things that happened. Obviously I can't know what he's thinking. Cjs are grown men and made the decision to leave sm but junsu's father played a big role in all of this sorry saga I feel. He says more than the other two at the 6.25 meeting and nothing but lies comes out of his mouth because we've seen the proof on this blog. Their lies are beginning to catch up with them though. How homin have managed not to say much at all is beyond me. They are very strong men. We icassies are the last to find out this staff. Korean and Japanese fans already know and that's a good thing at least. The public will find out more when the lawsuit continues properly in march. Oh why did I have to become a tvxq fan and go through this pain and thinking about them all the time. Its not fair. Which is why I can't wait for your next post Precious. Thanks again.

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  22. @oksi-chan:
    I wonder if u already read other post of Precious, he admits that from the beginning. I found people claimed that this blog is not different from JYJ sites or saying that since he's biased, the post is not reliable are so silly. Every blogger has their right to voice their thought. And if the things JSC have done are right, which side he bias to can not change anything since his sources are facts.

    @Precious: Thank u so much, I could not wait to read ur next posts ^-^

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  23. Thank you so much Precious.

    I read every single of your posts and I agree to all.

    I always believed in HoMin, reading this just make me love HoMin more. Sorry to JYJ's parent and the 3 themselves, they are very evil, NOT SM.

    I want to cry everytime thinking how much HoMin is suffering because of what JYJ and their family did.

    JYJ don't deserve call themselves TVXQ at all, they are officially out. I just hope they do their stuff in the future and don't associate anything and give trouble to HoMin anymore.

    Seriously now I am reading all these posts is like a kdrama, now waiting for your next episode, LOL.

    To those JYJ fan that come to bash and disagree, I think you need to provide some sources and facts before making your arguments.

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  24. I leave the Japanese text of the part you referred to from the ‘Elle Japon Magazine June Edition’ so that i-fans can read it through machine translation.
    As you probably know, intentionally or not, this part was not translated at that time. Only this part. Don’t you think that’s strange?

    ****************
    ソロでやろうと思ったのはなぜですか?
    シア・ジュンス(以下X)
    昨年からユニットのプロジェクトやドラマ出演など、一人一人の力をつけるプロジェクトが進むなかで、自分は歌で勝負していきたい、という思いがあったんです。韓国で東方神起としてデビューして6年、僕自身はある程度のことを成し遂げたと思っています。このタイミングで僕の中でソロプロジェクトが動き出しました。Xiah Junsuはずっと僕がやりたいと思っていた音楽やステージを実現するアーティストなんです。
    (FYR: My translation)
    Why have you decided to start activities as a solo artist?
    Xiah Junsu (hereinafter X):
    Our Solo projects such as unit activities/drama appearances were started last year in the idea of developing each member’s ability. For my solo project, I’ve wanted to pursue my career as a singer. It has been 6 years since we debuted in Korea as TVXQ and I feel I’ve accomplished my goal to some extent. Then the solo project started to take shape in my mind. Xiah Junsu is the artist who realizes the music and stages I’ve always dreamed.
    ****************

    In Japan there was an argument about the part ‘I’ve accomplished my goal to some extent’. Some insisted Junsu said he’s done with TVXQ and some said not.

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  25. It's frustrating to see that the majority of the jyj fans won't take the time to find out the truth since it's so much easier to believe the lies. They continue to hold on to the deception that was generated by the 6.25 meeting and further provoked by the actions of jyj, no matter how contradicting they are. I hope those that read this blog will take the time to at least THINK about the information that is presented here.

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  26. @ kohei007
    Everyone's contract was modified 5 times, but the table only shows 3 members because I got it from the injunction judgment where only 3 are involved.

    @ yuli
    I'll explain about AKTF too. :)

    @ oksi-chan
    You're right. Those are my assumptions as clearly stated, but I'm not really sure that you can call them biased. Those were more "common sense" assumptions. Anyways, anything else you've found that doesn't make sense? :)

    @ kenda
    I cannot take full credit for the researches. Most of the researches were done by the Korean fans already, and I'm just a messenger. Analyzing and translation are all me, so I'll take that credit. :)

    @ ahmad
    Thanks for the link. I get a lot of info from that open forum. I'll probably post about that place to in the future.

    @ Reema
    Is it possible that it's all the families' doing? Yes, but not likely. You just need to look at what CJS's been doing and saying until today to see it. I know it's hard to blame the members directly, and you don't have to. Just need to realize what happened and support TVXQ.

    @ dhanirahman52
    CJS's parents claim that HoMin's parents had similar meeting to 6.25 before them. I'll be going over that claim in the future.

    @ apooli
    Being a TVXQ fan is not easy. :)

    @ sinful09
    Ultimately, that's what I want too. Just hope JYJ and their fans will just leave and go their own way instead of hanging onto TVXQ they abandoned to the end.

    @ Lisalio
    Thanks. I appreciate the translation. Do you mind if I quote your translation in my future post? I'll give you proper credit. :)

    @ catherine
    It's hard to break one's own belief, especially the ones where emotion is involved. Some people will never realize the truth, and you just can't help it.

    ReplyDelete
  27. @Lisalio: thank u so much for the translations. I've been searching for the translation but cannot find relative translations in any tvxq websites :P
    Thanks alot ^^

    ReplyDelete
  28. Thank you so much for this, you are awesome Precious! I'm waiting for next posts already :)

    ReplyDelete
  29. i've been following news pertaining to the lawsuit mostly from JYJ sites/blogs for the past months. i'm mainly neutral, since i'm a Homin fan but i believe in what JYJ is fighting for. this blog is known among JYJ fans as pro-Homin that spreads lies about JYJ so i read everything here with a pinch of salt. then i read a jpg file of the 625 Meeting translation posted by JYJ fans that i had assumed was translated by them but i was surprised when i read that oddly enough, they had not only lifted the full translation from this hated blog but had added their own summaries/commentaries. which i thought was a questionable thing to do.

    most of the things that bothered me while reading the transcript have been pointed out in this post.
    -how the family members kept saying "support all 5" but 1) the meeting only had JYJ fan cafe admins who will obviously be biased towards JYJ only 2) they kept reiterating again and again that the boys are split 3:2 and 3)a family member casually references a supposed complaint of fans that directly pits 2 of the boys against each other

    -the meeting that was supposedly held by the other 2 parents (did this really take place?)

    -how the audio file was supposed to be edited but in it, a family member clearly states that they only have the meeting room for exactly an hour

    -how Junsu's father just overheard that the boys only gets 10% from their Japan activities...from the president himself. (in what kind of situation do you overhear things such as the secret terms of your son's contract from the head of the company himself?)

    -and the one that bothered me most is "Homin changed their minds in one hour." nobody changes their minds about a life decision in a span of SIXTY MINUTES. they said themselves that the 2 members did not fully agree to leave the company in the first place. so apparently it wasn't like all five had a firm decision to leave all along. So how could it happen that within an hour of finalizing the decision, after taking into account their 800,000-strong fan base, their careers, their financial situation, their reputation, Homin reneged? it just doesn't add up. Maybe ordinary people who have nothing at stake can do that, but not these boys. another thing is, did not the 3 parents try to talk and convince the other 2 after Homin reversed their decision? why just accept it so easily? they knew all along about Homin's reluctance, so when you tell the JYJ fans in the meeting about Homin changing their minds in "one hour", they just make it sound like the ultimate betrayal.

    this just really made me question a lot of things.

    ReplyDelete
  30. @ cat1177
    Yes, they basically stole my translation without my permission, doesn't even reveal the original source and called my pure translation a "rumor" and had to add their commentaries to hide the real truth.

    Once you start seeing the lies, your eyes will open and you should start seeing other lies that weren't so obvious before. Just compare the facts from both sides, and you'll know what makes more sense.

    ReplyDelete
  31. @ cat1177
    Oh BTW, I will talk about the meeting supposedly held by the 2 parents, but meanwhile ask yourself this. Did you ever see any proof that it really happened except what's said in the 6.25 meeting and some screen captures of chatting sessions? That should answer your question.

    ReplyDelete
  32. @ Precious

    I checked ahmad's post of twitter link of the TVXQ lawsuit, and close at the end, it said "When signing a new contract with Avex, JYJ demanded that Avex cut all business relationship with SM" do you have any information regard that issue? Can they really ask that demand? I know they famous and all, but it doesn't or shouldn't be enough of a reason for Avex to do it. Grant that there are chance that Avex trying to fix JYJ and SM problem as some people here suggested... but I don't know. What are your take on this?

    ReplyDelete
  33. What I want to know is why they did all this?! Why not just solve things quietly without dragging homin and the fandom into this?!

    If they wanted to leave for whatever reasons that's fine ... What I can't stand is the way they did it..

    Thanks again for all of this Precious :)

    ReplyDelete
  34. @ Hotaru
    I was going to post about that too. I'll post about it pretty soon.

    @ Phlootuga
    All will be explained. I wish I had 80hrs/day LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  35. as international fan with no ability to know whats really happened you really help me to know facts i know as fan and u also may not know the whole truth but at least we try to be objective in our opining base on the info that we have and after reading whats happen in 6:26 without ur comment i reach the same opining

    so thank you for ur hard work from kuwait

    ReplyDelete
  36. First time posting here. I will start by thanking you for taking the time to provide international fans with translations of the facts of this story.
    To be honest, I didn't need to read this blog to form an opinion about the whole issue. But I am glad that the info posted here confirmed my opinion.
    I think probably because I'm older than the average TVXQ fan (and especially the average JYJ fan because they do sound like they are VERY young every time I read their comments) and probably because I have worked in a business for years I never believed that the issue was like it was presented by TVXQ fans, so black and white I mean.
    I was neutral towards JYJ and Homin in the beginning but felt like there's something that just doesn't click. I witnessed how emotional in their support towards JYJ the fans were from the beginning and, despite the JYJ biased and immature way that the news were handled/presented everywhere and also despite the very unreliable way that such news were given by sites like AKP, I slowly saw that JYJ weren't making sense in some points, were contradicting themselves and didn't match their actions to their words.
    I finally formed a very negative opinion after their insulting to our intelligence statement against Avex.
    I don't believe the "they were influenced by their parents, it's not their fault" excuses. And the same goes for Homin too. Both sides went into showbizz very young, they have lived more and know more than the average 24 year old. Most importantly, they know how fans are and how easily they can manipulate them if they want to.
    And manipulate they did, JYJ I mean. The way they launched the "we love them and wish them well but they hurt our feelings" PR campaign regarding Homin's comeback is perhaps the most blatant example (and true to the way their parents manipulated the fans at the meeting, with their "we don't want fanwars but guess who betrayed the trio because they got solo projects" way). And the passive-aggressive twitter PR is perhaps the most "disgusting" example.
    (continued)

    ReplyDelete
  37. (continue)
    Homin parents have shown to me , as an older "fan", that they have been honest and non contradicting when they publicly (and bravely) stated their opinions. Predictably, not many (at least international) fans bother to listen to what these people have to say and just dismiss them and attack them as bad parents even. And also predictably, even now that they can't deny what was said by JYJ parents they react by finding (yet again) excuses for JYJ's actions or hating on Yunho especially because he is a bad leader who changed his mind within an hour and decided to support the evil company instead of his innocent "friends". Clearly, anyone with half a brain (and I don't care who is offended by that) should be able to see how insulting to our intelligence and unreliable JYJ's parents sound like throughout the meeting.
    To conclude this (long) post, I'd like to say that I don't agree with what was said by some Homin fans either (for example, some were making fun of JYJ's english album sales but we have to admit that it did sell better than Homin's album and JYJ still have the bigger fanbase, with the exception of Japan of course). But in general, even this Homin biased blog (bias that JYJ fans, elsewhere or commenting here, keep on bringing up because they can't find an intelligent way to contradict the translated facts) is able to provide with clear facts when stating an opinion , unlike the "SM/Homin are bad and JYJ are good, end of story" way that JYJ biased fans have been forming/expressing their opinions for almost two years now.
    Right now my only hope is that Yunho and Changmin will be able to continue with their career because (unlike what JYJ biased fans were saying) they DO deserve and are talented enough to have a career. And maybe that Yunho especially will one day speak openly about what happened and not just limit himself to "I was hurt by lies against me" type of messages. if anything, he owes it to himself.
    Thank you again for the translations. If you would be interested or found the time sometime, I think it would be interesting to translate what Jaejoong said about not being cast in Poseidon in one of their recent interviews (since Yunho being chosen for this drama was another excuse for JYJ fans to spread rumors against him).

    ReplyDelete
  38. @Vicky

    I also agree with you. And JJ did interview regarding Poseidon's cast? I didn't know about that... haven't follow his twitter and interview for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  39. @vicky

    really did he say about being cast in Poseidon? O-o

    ReplyDelete
  40. @vicky
    i was just thinking the same thing about the age of the HoMin vs. JYJ fans. I've also come to notice that many of HoMin fans tend to be older working adults whilst many JYJ fans are younger teenage fans who are still kind of naive in my opinion believing all the SM is evil and HoMin are bastards for turning their backs on JYJ

    Not saying age is a factor in this , cause many JYJ supporters whom i know are working adults who are even older then me , and yet , they have the mentality of a child when it comes to being a fangirl, where they whine and complain when their idols are being criticised and put in a bad light.

    I just wish fans will start growing up and open their minds that fandom really isn't everything and stop making this such an important factor in their lives. Supporting an idol is ok , but we should all know where our limits should lie, that it does not start affecting ones regular life and personal relationships.

    ReplyDelete
  41. @precious
    i wonder if you read about SM’s Complaint Against Crebeau DISMISSED ?
    Would you be talking on this as well ?

    honestly i think they should organise their "write ups" a bit better , cause i had a headache trying to read the whole article as well as their "explaination"

    ReplyDelete
  42. @ NodNoubt
    Thanks for your support. The file itself is pretty clear. :)

    @ Vicky
    Thanks for kind words. Like you said, the truth was out there all along for everyone to see. Totally agree with your post.

    @ Hotaru
    Poseidon casting was another lie spread by people. To summarize, there was one news article released about Jaejoong getting the part, and that was it. Have you noticed that whenever there's a news about HoMin, there's always something coming out from CJS side?

    The cast for Poseidon were already decided in June, but that news article was released around August. Typical media play.

    @ justine
    I know about it. I may write something about it, but not for a while. Need to finish articles about 6.25 meeting.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I checked the link to DC Gall and it's just posted on 13 Feb but the judgement was made since 27 dec 2010 almost 2 months ago,why it's just widely pubished now? hmmmm....

    ReplyDelete
  44. @adrenalinss
    I know that pro jyj sites are touting it as a win for them but in reality crebeau's suit was also dismissed so it's really just a draw. They are also spreading rumors that crebeaus suit is still in court showing an article from way back in march as proof when we all know as precious has already posted that it is over and done with. Unless new charges were filed. Although I am confused on how all things could be dismissed considering crebeau's lawsuit against them is considered defamation which they did sue about. As well as the fact that all 5 members photos were used in promotion of the product at times not just the 3 when they were the only ones that signed the contract. Very confusing. Also some kpop news sites are using that pro jyj translation as you can tell by the picture of jaejoong on the document too report it which I think is highly unprofessional. All around it really is highly suspicious though how it is just coming out now.

    ReplyDelete
  45. @ adrenalinss
    Yes, the judgment was supposed to be from Dec 27, 2010, but there wasn't a single article about it. As far as I know, a JYJ fan visited a Crebeau shop in Korea, and got a copy of the judgment from the shop and posted it, which is spread now.

    I need to find out more about it before commenting on it.

    ReplyDelete
  46. @ adrenalinss
    Correction. It's not a judgment since the case didn't even go to a trial. The posted document is what's called a "statement of opinion" released by the DA. I'm kinda puzzled why there was no news of it, and also how a copy would be given to a fan.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @Precious
    Is that even legal to give that kind of document to a fan. I understand how these things can be found online through the Korean court website. But I am under the assumption that only actual copies of the document are given to both parties involved in the suit. I understand you would want to clear your name but that is a little shady of the company to give that kind of document to a fan. Other companies and investors might be a little less likely to take part in your operations if you do things like that.

    ReplyDelete
  48. @ LadyYejin
    That's the part that I am wondering about too. It's an official document from DA, and while I understand Crebeau's need to release it to clear its name, but having a fan spreading it is kind of strange.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @Hotaru: Right before KYHD was released JYJ did a press conference or something and there was a number of interviews of theirs released after that. Among those there was a question to JJ about what happened with Poseidon. I didn't keep the link but it was posted at TVXQ Daum gallery and Yunho's DC gallery. Basically, from what I understood from google translate, he said he couldn't take part in Poseidon because of schedule conflict (filming would coincide with their tour) and it seemed like he lay a bit of blame to the producers for that.

    @ LadyYejin: What I am confused about is how any court could decide that JYJ's involvement was a simple investment when they clearly used the "TVXQ" brand value to sell the cosmetic goods.
    And yes, Crebeau's suit against SM was rejected by the court some time ago. The article was posted at AKP when it happened.

    ReplyDelete
  50. @Precious

    thing starts to get complicate and confusing again with the lawsuit being dismiss... something very suspicious T.T

    ReplyDelete
  51. @ Precious
    Of course not.:)
    Can you also talk about Korean translations of it some day?
    I think they are interesting.:D

    @ ayoepan
    No wonder. Translators skipped this part.:p
    If you need the whole translation, one is here:
    http://sharingyoochun.net/2010/04/28/trans-100427-elle-japon-junsu-interview-qa/
    You will see the phrase ‘no translations’ before the question ‘What type of contents will it include?’. This part should be there.

    ReplyDelete
  52. @Precious

    I'm in complete shock right now. I've just found your site, read this month's articles and really - I'm nearly crying. Crying from relief, actually, because after reading all this countless JYJ-biased information floating around the internet I felt like I'm the only one who believes in Yunho and Changmin. And here, I feel like a heavy burden has been taken off me. Thank you, thank you so much.

    I promise I'll write more elloquent comments in the future; it's just that in my country (Poland) it's 2 am right now and I'm way to sleepy to write more.

    I just needed to thank you from the depth of my heart.

    ReplyDelete
  53. @ vicky
    The way I understood the DA's opinion is that they didn't have enough evidences to prove CJS's deep involvement with the business except for their financial investment. I am suspecting that CJS did not specify TVXQ in the contract with Crebeau, and didn't do anything 'officially'. I guess in the eye of the DA, covering their stores with TVXQ pictures probably doesn't mean much which is understandable.

    ReplyDelete
  54. @Vicky: just wanted to say that I don't know if its true that JYJ's English album has sold more than KHYD-coz last time I checked the Beginning sold 127 K copies (I got this from a site which listed the top 10 albums of 2010) and I believe HoMin have sold more, but I may be wrong-I just hope JYJ stop giving contradictory statements of wanting to be TVXQ and then saying they have no regrets leaving the band.What I dislike most is their subtle bashing of HoMin like you said through twitter and interviews.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Damn my heart doesn’t want to believe this but my brain is telling me this makes so much sense
    Even if I’m a homin stan I was a always 5 stan before, not that I hate jyj now, but I like homin more, but is hard to believe since I was once a 5 stan and I love them all a lot and they were really great role models for me, people that I really admire and people i supported for so long I even got a part time job to buy their stuff, I have spend at least 1000$ in their stuff and since I’m so far away shipping is really expensive but I was happy cause I felt I was supporting their dreams and helping them, so reading this makes my heart hurt I feel betrayed.
    Since the beginning I knew JYJ weren’t angels but I thought it was a 50-50 thing JYJ is not 100% right but is not but neither 100% wrong but wow how can there family act this way , and they don’t even make sense in what they say.
    The contract said this but we have never seen the contract I heard it from the CEO
    Wow Junsu’s dad need to show me his ninja skill

    ReplyDelete
  56. @ okami-kaoru
    It is shocking. Sometimes I cannot believe some of the stuff even while I'm typing it.

    @ rosetta16
    I feel your pain. It's really hard to believe, but you can't really deny an actual recording.

    ReplyDelete
  57. hello :) i've been a silent reader for a while and i want to say that your blog is great, it's not fair to compare it to other biased sites saying "it's the same information but from SM's pov only" that's ridiculous.

    there are a lot of info here that weren't mentioned at all or only half of it in other sites like the 62.5% that jyj and their family own, who filed the main lawsuit first, dbsk's whole contract( 70% of net profit), CreBeau business and now the translation of the meeting so i really thank you for your hard work<3.

    if jyj want to leave it's their life i have nothing against it but the way they're handling it isn't professional at all.

    ReplyDelete
  58. @ Lisalio
    Thanks. I think when you post a link in your comment, it automatically goes to the spam folder. I just recovered your comment.

    I'll post about Korean translations too. You probably already know where I'm going with that. :)

    ReplyDelete
  59. @Precious

    I went to one of JYJ sites and someone said that police took Kim Young Min in to prosecute... and he provide the link, can you take a look can briefly tell me what it said? because I can't copy the text to google translate it. Thanx in advance

    http://blog.naver.com/g0i9w?Redirect=Log&logNo=80104023011

    and like @adrenalinss said, why now (after 2 months) and not right when it dismissed? like Crebeau Lawsuit against SM is drop it announce right away...

    ReplyDelete
  60. @ Hotaru

    Geez, way to rehash an old news. Look at the date of that blog, March 19, 2010. That was when Crebeau sued SM, and Kim Young Min was investigated by the DA, and you know what happened to that lawsuit.

    ReplyDelete
  61. @Hotaru
    If you actually look at the top it says that it was posted in March of 2010 so most of the information is outdated anyways. Crebeaus defamation and obstruction of work charges were made against Kim Young Min and the prosecution ended up dismissing them. I also referenced those rumors that they were spreading in one of my comments. That person who posted probably new it was outdated but just had to add fuel to the fire and use the outdated article to prove there point and as you saw most of the commenter's fell for it because they won't even go look at the information themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  62. @ LadyYejin @Precious

    yes, I just noticed it... sorry Precious, I'll look better at the date next time I ask you to read something TTATT. Sorry I waste your time.

    ReplyDelete
  63. @Precious
    Yep. I mean
    http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/Lisalio/a0062015_4c1dc2beadf53-1.jpg
    or
    http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/Lisalio/a0062015_4c1dc2bfef296.jpg
    or
    http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/Lisalio/a0062015_4c1dc2beadf53.jpg

    This comment will definitely go to the spam folder.
    Please rescue my comment.:D

    ReplyDelete
  64. @ Lisalio
    LOL where do you even get all those files? I was going to use those pics too. I'll get to them. :)

    @ Hotaru
    No Problem. :)

    ReplyDelete
  65. there are three different dated on that article:

    Nov 3,2010: 'letter by Seoul .. police station'? then...
    Dec 27,2010: 'decision was made'? and ... if they got it from Crebeau store so Jan 3,2011 is supposed to be 'translation date'? And they released it just now. Let's see what's next!;)
    But this must be nominated for Oscar,if this news will be taken down later because it's actually a fanatic imagination among JYJ fans,but someone happened to see it! hehe just kidding XD

    But... except all this,they MAY aware that Precious is not SM stan otherwise Precious would surely know abt! So an accusing against "Precious as another Forever" is DISMISSED too! LOL

    oh..forgot to thank you Precious for 6.25 Analyzing! ^^ fighting Fighting

    ReplyDelete
  66. @Lisalio

    what are those image link about?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Just thought this was interesting. A writer named philipbrasor, who works for Japan Times, called JYJ the "Tohoshinki traitors" (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fd20110213pb.html) and JYJ fans got really upset and sent messages/tweets to him about that and he apologized saying:

    "Also, I seem to be getting a lot of flack in the comments section from JYJ fans regarding my reference to the trio as “traitors.” I apologize for the term, which was meant ironically, so I probably should have placed it in quotes. My point was that bolting from one’s talent agency, whether in Japan or Korea, is considered a serious breach of show biz protocol regardless of the reasons, and as far as I know the group still hasn’t been forgiven by the industry in South Korea..."
    (http://philipbrasor.com/2011/02/13/media-mix-feb-13-2011/)

    I thought his statement about the serious breach of protocol and not being forgiven yet by the SK industry was something to note.

    Anways, thanks again for your analysis precious :) I appreciate all your hard work. Reading the comments on here and seeing some new people starting to open their eyes to see HoMin's side is a big relief ^^ I'm glad this blog is helping with that :)

    ReplyDelete
  68. @ uknowgirl86

    I bet the authors email was filled with hate mails LOL.

    Yes, I was happy to see more people opening their eyes. It makes all the effort worthwhile.

    ReplyDelete
  69. @ uknowgirl86
    BTW, it is to be unexpected for the industry to disapprove CJS's action. What CJS did can destroy the existing system. Imagine companies investing money on the trainees, support them to succeed, then they file a lawsuit to break the contract. Nobody would want to invest on a long term project group like TVXQ.

    BTW, I'm not saying the current system is good or bad. There are pros and cons in the current system.

    ReplyDelete
  70. @ precious
    I'm assuming you meant it is *expected* (instead of unexpected)? And I think another thing that plays a part in why it might be difficult for them to be forgiven is that when it comes to Asian mentality especially, they value loyalty and honor, and because of JYJ's leaving SM like they did, many in Korea/Japan (excluding fans) will see their leaving in a negative light.

    ReplyDelete
  71. First time I read the meeting's content, I feel nothing on it against Homin. The decision to not file the lawsuit is just their decision for their careers. No right or wrong here.

    And I don't think it's something that can make people think bad about them.

    And because of that, Junsu's father can not use it to blame them as well.

    File the lawsuit, do not file the lawsuit, leave SM, stay with SM, they're just their choices for their life. And no one can blame them. It's their own life.

    ReplyDelete
  72. @ uknowgirl86
    Oops! Yes, I meant expected.

    @ Giang - Nhóm 3
    Nobody here is blaming anyone for their career choices. It's just how CJS left, putting all the blame on HoMin for the TVXQ's breakup.

    ReplyDelete
  73. @Precious
    any possibility there is evil company behind JYJ action? i mean they main target is SM and they want to use TVXQ but they failed. end with only use JYJ. I just feel wierd. how can ppl can change 180 degree? ofc i believe in YunMin but i still cant believe JYJ can do all this ridic action. alone? only JYJ and their family?
    or any possibily they was in dificult condition. like someone (?) threatened them to push SM and YunMin go to Bad Image.
    I realy miss jaejoong junsu and Yoochun (not JYJ)
    Why lyric " im afraid you meet with a bad guys"
    i know yunho statement cleared that the songs not for JYJ. but still... o_o'

    ReplyDelete
  74. @Hotaru
    These are Korean translations of Junsu's interview from Elle Japan, which Precious mentioned in this post. I find It interesting.
    Wait till you read Precious's explanation.:D

    @Precious
    I found them in a famous Japanese TVXQ blog back in June 2010. It is also well known in Japan.:p

    ReplyDelete
  75. @Vicky, well-said.

    it's very tedious to be going back and forth in all these pro-JYJ and pro-Homin sites, and reading up on everything. most fans do not have the time nor the patience, and anyway it's easier and more convenient to believe what you already believe. the sad thing is there are plenty and i mean plenty of new JYJ fans who come into this with the mindset that Homin are evil traitors who have forsaken their 3 friends for money. if you're already a JYJ biased fan then there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to make you open your mind and try to see that nothing is ever black or white and we must always examine and question the gray areas in between, and to not let your opinions be swayed by emotions. of course this is easy for me to say, i did not emotionally and financially invest 7 years of my life on these 5 boys. but still, Homin, especially Yunho, who has been getting the brunt of all the blame and attacks, deserve that much.

    anyway, i forgot to leave a thank you to Precious for the transcript.

    ReplyDelete
  76. another thing, i very much admire Yunho's behavior throughout all this, i think it's very dignified and humbling. a lot of people have been complaining about his silence but i think it is best. i personally don't really need to know about his feelings through twitter (i hope he never has one), and really, he can hardly say anything about the situation, being still under SME's employment, so maybe his silence is not 100% his choice. (even Hangeng said before that he doesn't want to get the other Suju members in trouble by contacting them.) like Vicky, i hope that one day maybe years from now, Yunho will want to open up. but for now, i think his silence is the best course. As for Changmin, that boy obviously has a lot of pent-up anger.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Well, when there's some JYJ's fan bashing Homin, I don't worry about Homin but I worry about JYJ's image. It makes people hate them because of their fans.

    And the same to Homin's fan bashing JYJ.

    Let's spread love, not hate, it will help them more.

    ReplyDelete
  78. @ dhanirahman52
    Anything's possible, but I'm not going to post anything without any kind of proof. There are theories and circumstantial evidences, but not enough for me to post. If I posted everything I knew, my blog would be much longer. :)

    @ Lisalio
    I guess Japanese fans know a lot more than I thought they do. They pretty much know everything. No wonder most of them support TVXQ. :)

    @ cat1177
    I agree with you. The best thing for him to do was to keep his silence and not talk about anything. I don't think there was anything he could say to improve the situation.

    ReplyDelete
  79. @ Giang - Nhóm 3

    I disagree. Blind love won't help anyone. That's actually making the situation worse.

    ReplyDelete
  80. @ Precious - Thanks for your answer. My brain was very congested yesterday. Sorry for asking you that stupid question. ^^

    @ Giang - Nhom 3

    It's understandable that you feel that way. But can I beg to differ? I think many have said this including Precious himself. In this case, the damage has already been done mostly to Homin and SM. And considering the bashes that Homin and SM (including SM employees) have received on other sites, it seems to continue. Isn't it better for fans particularly those who bashed Homin and SM (or just simply 'don't understand why they did what they did') to be introduced to the other side of the story based on facts?

    To resolve conflict, love might be one solution. But it's not a panacea. We need to understand the roots of conflict and that's where facts and information plays their part. And for me, fairness is also an indispensable element of conflict resolution. We cannot resolve conflict without making it fair. In this case, people can use facts (including some of his valid speculations) that they gain from here to compare with information from the other side. It's fairer to both those who involved in this mess and fans like us than having one-sided information, isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  81. My opinion ::

    HOMIN fan think JYJ always bad eventhought they said the truth. And in the other hand JYJ fan think that as well.
    And both side of fan show the reason with their comment. No one accept that Homin or JYJ not wrong.
    Maybe the true is just misunderstanding among them(tvxq) and cannot accept the way of each other. And maybe all of them agree that the best way for them is separation.

    if you think in that way so,this topic will never end. if you bias just accept that you bias because you love only Homin or JYJ not because another is toooooo BAD more than you can love them.

    Ps. It's just the way they go so just love them on their way not blame another.

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  82. @kohei007
    hello guy , I am the one that follow both side (jyj and homin fan) in early until now. so I found that if you are not Fan of five but you bias you will alway speak in one way. I mean JYJ will blame SM(sometime include HOMIN)with a ton of reason. And also in Homin fans.

    about 625 meeting if it bias and make more rumor so you will admit that Yunho oppa's mail to some writer in japan in last year is make it too.

    If we are not tvxq. we never know the true.

    why when they are TVXQ you can love and scream for them loundly but now you can hate them.

    just because the are not the most person you prefer. right? so upset T-T

    ReplyDelete
  83. Congrats, CJS's parents, you guys almost had us all fooled. NOT. I've never trust them in the first place. Their words contradicted so much in the interview, I'd never believe the lies that came out of their mouths.

    @Precious
    I can never thank you enough for this blog. JYJ fans need to get it out of their heads that their biases are the main victims in this whole situation. And I hate how hypocritical they are. Thinking this just gets me a headache and I'm already sick. Reality...it's a pain in your butt. If only JYJ and their fans/family could learn to move on and discontinue to hide behind their obvious lies.

    ReplyDelete
  84. @joup
    yes it is very true, you would tend to side with the one you are biased to. however, it doesn't hurt to analyze the facts presented to you. such as the transcript to this 625 Meeting. it's always better to form an opinion based on information.

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  85. @ Precious~ Thank you so much for this blog <3 I love how people here actually use their brain to interpret the information rather than using their heart~ We all tend to be biased to the ones we love, but it doesn't mean we must also accept what they've done inappropriately. I completely agree with the fact that if you were a JYJ fan to begin with, you would tend to become ignorant to negative feedback. Of course, same goes for HoMin. And most of us here are probably neutral or HoMin biased to begin with. This of course has a psychological basis: it is simply hard to give up your beliefs (this also has to do with human evolution - keke, I'm a premed ^^).

    JYJ's way of handling the whole situation is analogous to exploding things up - "We must make a big deal out of this lawsuit while hurting everyone around us: fans, HoMin, family, SM, even Crebeau." I thought it wasn't necessary at all to voice out - you have shown it through your actions, the world doesn't need to know any more than that. Do we really need to know that HoMin supposedly backed out on them? Do we need to know SM wanted to split TVXQ? Do we need to know how JYJ felt betrayal? Why are we even fed this information? Has anyone thought that if fans only knew that JYJ sued SM for contract problems, then no one would ever put a blame on HoMin - because what is there to blame? Just like Hangeng's case - no one blamed the other SuJu members because there simply wasn't anything to put a blame for.

    Seriously, it's not hard to see the motive behind this - JYJ's revenge on SM and HoMin. I would presume that something related to Crebeau must've happened between the members before JYJ decided to sue SM because we can clearly see JYJ's active participation in Crebeau before the lawsuit. HoMin probably got into an argument with JYJ about it simply because HoMin thought that Crebeau may hurt TVXQ's image and anything should logically be discussed with their company, SM, first.

    It is really difficult to give up a 9 year friendship, especially with a friend you've lived with, shared memories with, and worked with. To think that JYJ would do that meant that they must've had a really big argument or misunderstanding (whether or not it be Crebeau). We can probably tell by how depressed Yunho was and how mad Changmin was for the past year.

    Anyway, I continue to await your next post! (: I really enjoy reading this even during exams haha~ mainly because it shows how fake some idols can be~

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  86. I just don't want to see the seperation happen to international fans as in Korea.

    Why does supporting one side means against the other. Our five boys still love and miss each other.

    U can see the damages that fanwars created in Korea. No one's happy and of course the most damaged ones is the boys.

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  87. @Giang-Nhom 3
    Who says we are starting a fan war? Most of us do not go to other sites such as JYJ files to spout are opinion. We discuss it with each other. If you look at the blog it's pro-jyj fans who are coming in here and trying to discredit precious. None of us I believe want to start anything or make problems for others we just want a place where we can read the information that is not always available to us and discuss with other fans there is no malicious intent behind it. In fact it is jyj fan-sites linking to this blog basically calling precious the devil re-incarnate. Not all fans of either side are bad some have just taken it too another level and make everyone look evil. We will admittedly say we are bias but we are not out to destroy anyone.

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  88. @Giang - Nhom 3
    I'm sure none of us want to see the separation happen. But honestly many a times we are forced to take sides.

    Honestly, how sure are we that they miss one another ? This is just what many of us fans choose to believe to soften the impact and hurt. We chose to see the rosy picture all the time, nothing wrong with that but that is just not practical. the hurt has already been created. Whether it's to the fandom or to the boys. Even if things were to go back to what it used to be, there will still be that crack that can not be mended.

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  89. http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/ivy-files-a-lawsuit-against-her-agency
    It's last month news but JYJ are not the only one who has to struggle to return in the industry after filing a lawsuit.

    "but music industry representatives will not discuss any activities with me because my exclusive contract is still valid with STOM E&F. I have filed a lawsuit in order to prove that the contract is invalid.”
    Sounds familiar? Maybe things will be better for JYJ after the lawsuit is over, until then their fans should refrain themselves from blaming SME every time the trio is not on Korean TV.

    Maybe this is just me but the parents sounds kinda cocky when I read the translation. Protecting TVXQ? I don't get that intention from the meeting at all. It's more like 'protecting my own interest at all cost'.

    Well, I'm glad that HoMin has show them that success is from hard work and respect is earned, not demanded.

    ReplyDelete
  90. @joup - Thanks for replying to my comment. And thanks cat1177, your comment really reflects my view.

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  91. @shimjang

    I though the same thing when I read that article about Ivy in Allkpop...

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  92. As for the case of SM vs. Crebeau, I am not surprised to learn that it was dropped. For the allegation of defamation, there are many elements to it. Some of them are actually difficult to prove. For example, you need to establish the measurable loss caused by the defamation. First you have to prove there is a financial or reputation loss due to the defendant. Then you need provide the evidence to measure the loss. There is a fine line between defamation and freedom of speech. In this case, I don't think a forum for Cassie can be attributed as a direct damage to Crebeau's public reputation. Nor do I think that SM can claim the loss from Crebeau.

    That's why I am so shocked by the CJS stans proud of Crebeau's bluff and bully towards the netizens. There is nowhere in the world would these girls ever be convicted by defamation.

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  93. @cat1177 You said what was on my mind all along! I can't help but tear up when I think about Yunho and what he had to go through. Yunho probably put the full blame of TVXQ's disbandment to himself - he probably felt really sorry to the cassies as a leader to have TVXQ break up in such a messy way. Not to mention, a lot of cassies are blaming Yunho for it too and he knows. Besides taking the blame, I feel that he's emotionally depressed overall. He's very affectionate to his close friends, and it was probably less painful to endure physical pain than the emotional pain of having his closest friends/members to leave him. It just seems very unfair that some JYJ fans fail to realize that if it not for Yunho's leadership role in TVXQ, TVXQ may not have been as popular as now. Of course, all members are critical for TVXQ's success, but some JYJ fans need to stop neglecting HoMin's contribution to the group, especially Yunho because being a leader is superbly difficult: you must lead the group efficiently without creating any negative feelings! Yunho is truly a great leader: humble, helpful to juniors and constructively criticizes, but is really affectionate to his members. Such a talented artist doesn't deserve to be in this mess.

    *Yes, I am praising Yunho because I think he is truly amazing as an idol. (: (I don't care if you think I am biased, because I can tell you, I AM ever since this lawsuit began.)

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  94. Precious you're Forever ver Eng??? :))

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  95. I've been a TVXQ fan for nearly four years now. Two years before the lawsuit and two years after. Like some of the other international fans who'd been fed with biased article after another, I believed that it was SM's fault, that they just couldn't let the boys do what they want and stay happy. But it's been two years since then, and I like to think that I've become a little more sensible, a little less misled. It's like reading a storybook and then coming back years later to read it again, only to realise that there were so many things you've missed.

    I can't say I blame JYJ (half of me still loves them) although I did wonder at some point why Homin couldn't just leave SM. Seeing how close the boys were before the lawsuit, it's hard to think badly of any of them even after knowing the truth. What they had before was real. The love, the friendship. It's just sad. And after hearing everything that Yunho has been through, having him take all the hate without any kind of defense, I respect him so much more than i already do. Even though I have a soft spot for the leader, I dearly miss all five of them, and i do hope that despite this drastic turn of events, one day they can all work it out for good. It may seem impossible in the future, but that is my faith for the boys.

    All things aside, I'd like to thank Precious for his work here. It must have been hard on you, putting up with haters and still staying classy. I can understand how much effort you've put in to transcribing the meeting word for word, searching for documents and translating them for us. I've been to some JYJ sites, and all I can say is that I am grateful for your input. I'd call you a genius but you'd only say that it's common sense lol. Thank you once again, Precious fighting!

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  96. I was thinking I SM is blocking JYJ activities on TV like what JYJ fans said…… why didn’t JYJ appeared in Mnet? Since SM in Mnet is not in good terms and SM wasn’t sending his artist to Mnet music show so why didn’t JYJ spread there? It doesn’t make sense at all.
    ----
    So I just read jyjfiles summary in a Spanish forum and imp like……. I need to translate precious articles completely cause now they misleading latin fans too
    Because there are comments like “OMG sm is soo evil how can they do this”
    Gosh I will need tons of time but I’m going to translate this to Spanish so other people can know the truth and facts,

    ReplyDelete
  97. so why didn’t JYJ perform there*

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  98. @Precious
    Thank you as always for your posts. Couple minor discrepancies I noticed in this one: "Also notice when Junsu's father talks about rumors spread from HoMin's father's meeting with HoMin fan's admins [File 2 @ 2:02], he gives an example of badmouthing Jaejoong by comparing with Yunho being the leader in Korea. " <--JJ's sister actually says this, and it's in File 3.
    "Notice the last modification was done in February 6. CJS filed a lawsuit in less than 6 months after they signed an amendment." - I get that you mean they filed the petition for the contract injunction less than 6 months after, but just wanted to point this out b/c it seems like some people still like to believe "contract injunction" and "lawsuit" are equivalent terms. Haha sorry for being finicky, but having a B.A. in English kinda guarantees that I pay excessive attention to detail when I read. xP

    Also something kinda random I was wondering: what were the actual contents of the certified mail CJS sent SM on June 24th? Was it just notifying SM of their intent to void the contract, and CJS filed the actual petition to void the contract on July 31st?

    @wakeupandgogo
    Mm, I agree with you. I read the translation of the DA statement, and it's clear that the vast majority of the charges were dismissed because the evidence provided did not conclusively prove a direct and causal relationship between Crebeau's actions and the defamation/obstruction of SM's business, or it could not prove Crebeau's intent to defame/obstruct SM's business. Which I'm not surprised by either, because it's a defamation suit which means it's going to be based nearly entirely on circumstantial evidence - and proving things like intent and direct causal relationships from circumstantial evidence alone is incredibly difficult.

    I find it funny that some CJS stans are celebrating that case dismissal as some symbol of triumph, and saying that Crebeau "won" - I don't think they realize that getting a lawsuit dismissed only means that Crebeau was able to not get sued, lol. And that if they want to say Crebeau "won" then they'd also have to say that SM "won" because Crebeau's suit against them was also dismissed. AND furthermore, that would also mean that the fangirls who posted public apologies to Crebeau and thus prevented themselves from being sued also "won." Hah.

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  99. @Precious

    I hope you don't mind me using your translation for my own analysis, you know me, I like picking on details... I will credit of course, ^____^

    There are 2 things that I want to confirm with you just to make sure that I don't get lost in my own bias:

    1. Jaejoong's sister's statement gives me a headache. before the QnA session, did she use the word 'we' and 'us' to refer to Jaejoong, the group, the three members or the parents? Is it a common thing in Korea to refer to oneself as 'we' or 'us'?

    2. Did you get to read the 'summary' of the translation? One thing caught my attention, there is this one part they claimed that you (as the translator) made a grave mistake by leaving out the FTC order to SM to fix the members' contracts. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the whole contract revision was ordered AFTER the lawsuit was filed? If this is true, I think they had just confirmed that you did an unbiased job at translating, because I don't think Junsu's father would know on the 25th of June that FTC will tell SM to revise their contracts to follow the new FTC guideline.

    Thanks again :D

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  100. @joup

    you’re comparing Yunho's father letter to Kigoshi as spreading ‘Rumor’& ‘Bias’ like 6.25 meeting?
    You can’t deny many rumor came from 6.25 Meeting, and some infos said by JCS’s parent in the meeting, it’s conflicting itself, isn’t it???
    The reason Yunho’s father sent an email to Kigoshi because the article in Japanese magazine saying ‘the reason Yunho can’t join the lawsuit together with JSC because his father is in debt SM’ while the reason JCS’s parent held the meeting was … ‘they’RE HERAD the others parent held the meeting first’.
    What I read Yunho’s father explained how his family financial is going, if you think he spreads rumor, you can go to check all said in his letter. So I don’t see how can he create a Rumor by clarifying with the facts that how he earns money, he never mentioned about anyone else esp. JCS either ‘JCS’s family’ so … what should become a Rumor or Bias?

    And.. I never stop loving 'TVXQ' and never hate ‘TVXQ’ but i only stop supporting JaeChunSu ;) tks for dropping your comments anyway.

    We reach a hundred comment again! ;)

    Dear all,
    I <3 reading your comments, keep them coming! ^__^

    @LadyYejin
    Agree! We just need the place we can read information and not that we can’t argue with them but ..why we have to? I believe everyone have our own life norm ,no need to be the same! just I don’t get why they’re so interested with what we’ll believe???

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  101. @ Giang - Nhóm 3
    The division has happened already. I am sorry to tell you this, but your 5 boys do not love and miss each other. I don't know what your definition of "love" is, but no one spreads damaging rumors of your loved ones for the purpose of blaming them.

    @ wakeupgogo
    Yes, you summarized it well. I'll probably post something about that lawsuit. It's funny that some people think a lawsuit dropped was some sort of a victory.

    @ k
    LOL. I'll be posting about Forever too.

    @ saranghaeyouu
    I understand that it's hard to let go of something that was so good. It's too bad that it happened this way.

    @ biathanatos
    The injunction itself is a lawsuit, so technically, I wasn't wrong, but I guess I could have made clear distinction between the two by specifying "injunction".

    I do not know the exact content of the document sent to SM. I only know that it contains their request to void the contract from news articles.

    @ hyeonmu
    No problem. :)

    1. Which part are you talking about? If I used "we" in my translation, that probably means everyone involved including CJS and the parents. If you tell me exactly where, I can tell you what it means.

    2. Junsu's father never said "FTC ordered" in his statement. If I translate what he said word for word this is what he said. "공정계약의 거래로 뭔가 나오면" The direct translation is "If something comes out because of fair contract dealings"

    There was no way for me to know if Junsu's father was implying FTC in his statements, but I guess some people can read his mind from June 2009.

    I have no clue where it says "ordered by FTC" or "they were so grossly unfair" or "against the law". Those were all added by the "summarizer". LOL

    They can add the parts they created in the translation, but I don't think it changes much if anything.

    FYI, FTC in Korean is "공정거래 위원회" or "공정위" in short.

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  102. @ hyeonmu
    One more thing to add. I believe SM changed their contracts previously according to FTC guideline, but as I have shown from my previous post, the contract was following the FTC standard. Also if you read the translation of the contract, it shows exactly which parts were changed.

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  103. @ Yummy

    I missed your comment. Yes, SM the ballad was supposed to include Junsu. We all know why that project was delayed for a year.

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  104. Precious,

    What are your thoughts on someone translating your posts into Chinese?

    I was on baidu today and realized while you are clarifying so much for international fans, the Chinese fans have only recently heard of you and most cannot understand English well enough to grasp the significance of your posts, which are meaningful but also long. Their views are still very much obstructed for the overwhelming presence of JYJ fans/extreme Homin antis, and very few people have gotten hold of first hand information and presented them in an organized fashion. It's very much he said/she said.

    I know some popular blogs get translators and give their visitors the option to view in multiple languages. I'm not even sure how effective it would be in this case, seeing how everything would undergo translations twice (Korean => English => Chinese). I can already see homin anti's claiming that to detract the legitimacy of the information.

    It would be very time consuming and I don't even know if my Chinese is good enough any more to do your posts justice, but just wondering what you make of the idea.

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  105. Oops, last comment, I don't actually know if Chinese ppl have access to blogspot. China blocks quite a bit of social media..LOL

    ReplyDelete
  106. @ S

    I have no problem someone translating the info from my blog in Chinese as long as it's done correctly.

    I don't think Chinese fans can access my blog because I don't see any traffic from China.

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  107. @S

    If you are interested, I can help with the translation into Chinese as well. I saw quite a few JYJ fans got the news from DC that claimed Crebeau won the case against SM and the case against netizens. They even go lengthy on how those netizens are penalized, such as fines etc. I do think that i-fans need serious education on facts.

    @Precious
    Could you confirm if the case against netizens never went to trial? According to DC news, some netizens got fined and some apologized. More dramatically, some even showed proof of mental disease. As much as suspicious as it smells, I would like to argue with them by facts. I know it's been a long time (1 year), so it's OK if there is no affirmative information to be found on internet.

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  108. @ wakeupgogo
    According to a post from DCInside, the poster visited Crebeau store and got the copy of the DA's statement of opinion about the lawsuit.

    As for the claims regarding the netizens getting fined and getting doctor's certification for mental illness, there's no proof it happened except for that post. The poster claims that s/he "heard" about them when she visited the store.

    Here's the link to the DCInside post.
    http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=dongbang&no=1373495

    Those claims about the fans sound like another rumor created by them to use as a scare tactic and to ridicule the netizens who were sued. There's no way for me to verify those claims. Actually, it's them who should provide proofs before making such claims.

    It's funny that whenever HoMin side make a claim, they always provide some sort of evidences, but never from the other side.

    As far as I know, nobody went to a trial.

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  109. @wakeupgogo
    I'd be interested in that. Let's discuss the details to make sure what we do won't be going to waste & cause more harm for homin. Shoot me a message?

    ReplyDelete
  110. thanx Precious another hit post that shows the real facts thats were covered with lies .. still can digest jyj actions its so hard to believe those 3 boys were not angiles as they were showing it off to the ignorant fans & what really hurts the most they still playing the victim role so well while all the blame & the bashing still going on for homin .. i have my doubts now about their true feelings to homin since they did have the guts to hurt them that badly & still do!! what kind of love is that ??
    sorry if i went off the topic but still in shock of their(jyj) actions & i know i will be more shocked with Precious future post ..

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  111. @S

    I can't see your profile. So I don't really know how to send a private message to you.

    Would you like to enlighten me how to do this?

    ReplyDelete
  112. I know this is completely off topic but I just need to say something. Has anyone read the article about the petition over at allkpop. Some comments are saying they sense maturity in the blog JYJ files. Are they serious at times they have spread false translations and rumors and that's maturity?? Not only that but saying they have been denied there basic human rights by not being able to perform. Of all the immature childish things to say. Basic human rights are not being denied a job because of the colour of your skin, not being denied medical care because you don't have the money, or the right to an education that's human rights. What has been taken away from them has been the privilege to perform for others. It is a human's basic right too earn a living but that has clearly not been taken anyway since they are still working and earning money. Also do they really believe that any upstanding court is going to take into account a petition signed by foreigners who don't even understand the rules and regulations of the entertainment industry in Korea. I completely understand there need to support there artist but now they have just gone to far.

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  113. I am sorry about my little rant I just think with all the horrible things going on in the world to claim that there basic rights are being taken away because they can't perform on tv is immature and disrespectful to all the people who actually have had there basic human rights taken away. They are still able to make a living. Like Yoochun's tv series or Junsu's musical. Considering there record sales not being able to promote on tv has obviously not had a detrimental effect on the career.It just shows how little respect for other people that these fanatics have. I mean I don't see them making a petition for Ivy who has the same problem. Although people would beg to differ the fanatic jyj fans still claim they are the only ones going up against such persecution which is completely false.

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  114. Again sorry if I made anyone angry I just thought this was a place where I could express my disappointment and hopefully be understood.

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  115. @ LadyYejin
    We understand.
    Just go to a Karaoke, and sing "Why" until you lose your voice. That should take care of your frustration. :)

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  116. @LadyYejin

    Yeah, I understand. To be honest, when I read the article, I thought those fans are nuts and need to educate themselves.

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  117. @ LadyYejin
    Did you post that comment on allkpop? I hope you did :) It's almost amusing how some people see this as some moral and righteous crusade for humanity (or so they make it seem). I seriously think some people might actually think JYJ are angels and SM is satan. Lol.

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  118. @Freya87 @uknowgirl86
    It's also quite funny because with this petition they are probably going to turn more people against them. The average person or fan are going to think there crazy for making such accusations. Like I was talking with a friend who likes kpop but doesn't really pay attention they just like the music and she was just like "are you serious. Are these kids 12 cause the have obviously not been very educated" haha. Now she says she won't even listen to jyj cause obviously since they aren't telling there fans to stop they must believe in it and just as quoted by her "it's just plain stupid".

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  119. @Jessica
    i've always liked Yunho, although for some time i questioned his reason/s for not sticking with the other 3 (i don't anymore, it's become clear to me now). he's earned my respect and admiration with the way he conducted himself throughout this entire ordeal. it's very very uncalled for how fans from the other camp are now comparing the 2 group's skills as if all those years where they worked together and complimented each other with their individual telents counted for nothing now. and LOL...for someone who's supposedly the weakest vocally, i thought Yunho's KYHD and Maximum live performances were pretty amazing.

    @LadyYejin
    i feel ya. it's like the crusade of the century.
    i'm sick of all the righteousness and hostility and bitterness from the other camp. i feel so toxic reading their comments.

    i'm gonna have to whip out my hankies for tonight's Strong Heart episode.

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  120. @wakeupgogo

    sorry i can't figure it out either! But looks like someone's already beat us:

    http://tieba.baidu.com/f?z=1001616441&ct=335544320&lm=0&sc=0&rn=30&tn=baiduPostBrowser&word=%C2%B7%B9%FD%B5%C4%D2%BB%D6%BB&pn=60

    this person's citing precious as the source and the info presented in chinese is pretty accurate. this will spread =)

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  121. @LadyYejin

    yes, I'm 100% agree with you. I skimming through the comments (@AKP)and yeah... =.=. I was amused but at the same time very frustrated. Why can't they just let the court decided by themselves? And here they bad mouth or raging over about KEPA have no right to interfere with this (KEPA's petition regard artist file against their company like this), and tell them to let the court decide. And what did they do, they do the SAME thing. Such a double standard. Thinking about it was bad for my high blood pressure

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  122. @LadyYejin Yeah, unfortunately there are people who don't use their brain enough to know that they are actually being manipulated by their fandom. I must compliment JYJ on putting up a show to portray themselves as being the weaker, suffering party just to gain sympathy and pity from the general population in helping them sign a petition.

    @cat1177 Yeah, Yunho improved his vocals alot! Though I personally think he was always the best of the 5 during live dance performances. Leader-shii can really dance well haha~ But I must admit that I thought he was the weakest (out of the 5) vocally too (though he has the best bass voice ever). I still admire JYJ's great vocals despite the fact that they did such horrible things to HoMin. I can't deny the fact that JYJ are truly great singers. What I am sad about is that JYJ fans bash HoMin's vocals when clearly, it has nothing to do with the TVXQ breakup. I just feel that HoMin's fans are more mature and reasonable when it comes to defending their points (:

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  123. @LadyYejin :
    Hahaha lucky me, since lawsuit broke up I strict myself not read anything about JYJ anymore not because I hate them, as artists I respect JYJ, they are talented,I just can't stand with all the comments followed by their fans. LOL. Just avoiding them. Let them go with whatever they want to do..at last people will know what's their true intention.

    This is quite off topic but i just want to share my opinion here :

    I am Yunho biased since the first time I knew DBSK. I adore this man as an artist, entertainer & a human being. I am a mother of a little boy. I always hope that my son will grow up like Yunho physically and mentally. Since DBSK broke up, I felt the pain and hurt so much, seems fans or non fans threw all the blames to Yunho as the leader. Many DBSK or even Kpop site were full of JYJ's bias comments. I felt sad for Yunho. As International fans, it's difficult for me to find site which use English and fully support yet cheer Yunho plus Changmin. Lucky then I found Continue TVXQ site and the last one is this blog The truth about TVXQ. I'm happy, at least I have a place for fangirling at continue tvxq and as a mature fans I have something different when read all the posted by Precious. All make sense and in line with my thought at least Precious answered the the big question marked in my head. Hahaha big thanks Precious.
    I agreed with the most of fans here, let both side continue with their own path. Let the past gone by gone. It's tiring to bashing all the time moreover it's not good for our health. I saw Homin fans more mature and more classy handle the things just like Homin always show us.

    So, Precious whatever others said please never quitting to post the facts even it's hurt and pain. That's reality. At least we- Yunho or Changmin fans- has someone to count on.

    Precious fighting!

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  124. My thought (off topic):

    To be honest, at first I quite supported JYJ, since I only get the info about lawsuit from allkpop, even though I now sometimes allkpop is bias & inaccurate. I wasn't TVXQ fans initially, just onlooker who curious what's this about. I'm not in K-pop for long, just 1 and 1/2 year.

    As an onlooker I believe whatever JYJ said, thanks to allkpop article & comments. Moreover, this trueTVXQ wasn't existed prior December. Of course, I have big question about why Homin never join the 3, especially Yunho. Yunho is a very nice person from all the articles that I read, so why he doesn't join the supposedly brothers.

    So I believe JYJ were right until Junsu's unfair comment at the time TVXQ first comeback. It's simply unfair, even for an onlooker like me. Then, their contradicting comments. I thought they are happy after they got out from TVXQ, which means for me their brotherhood isn't real (I don't care, so be it). Then, they suddenly said they want to be together again (what the..)0.o

    Thanks to that I try to research what actually happen again & somehow managed to find this blog & get addicted. Thank you very much precious for your effort. My sympathy goes to Homin & SME who don't do wrong in this case. Now, I become Yunho fans, since I admire him very much.

    Sorry for the long rant. I want to post this somewhere.

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  125. @ Precious



    Sorry for not making a clearer reference, but Jaejoong's sister makes me so confused with her statements because she uses 'we' and 'us' and 'the kids' interchangeably. But the part that got me really curious is this:



    [5:58]

    The reason was because the kids signed the 13-year contract, and SM was saying the kids only needed to do what SM told them to do, and SM just needed to tell them what to do during that 13-year contract period. So after 5 years, 4 years, and 6 years have passed, the kids were having a hard time, so 5 of them got together in Japan.



    This is what they talked about after getting together. They talked about how they worked 6 years for the company, they’re one like before, TVXQ will serve in the military together, and they will absolutely continue as one even after the breakup. All 5 made an agreement right away (to work together) after everyone expressed their thoughts in that gathering.



    So they were all agreeing, and the parents were contacted about that, but after one hour, the two contacted us right away to say that they could not do it. So Jaejong, Yuchun, and Changmin (laughter) I mean Junsu…



    Anyways, so we said we’re all together in this and asked them why they are doing this. (change their mind) Well, I will tell you everything.

    (CONT'D)

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  126. ---- Now, I am probably reading too much into this, but I can't help myself, I am a stickler for details when it comes to analyzing.

    She said “the kids were having a hard time, “5 of them got together”, “they talked” and “the 5 made an agreement”. Then she continued “they were all agreeing” and “the parents were contacted”, but then, she continues “after one hour, the TWO contacted US right away”. And she said “we said we’re all together in this” and “asked them why they are doing this”.

    If the members got together in Japan and no family member was present (the gathering was between the 5 members) when they made that decision, shouldn’t she say “the two contacted CJS”, or “CJS let us know”?

    Aside from that, for me, if my son suddenly contacted me to talk about leaving a company to which he signed a contract with, I think I would take time to talk to them through every options available because it is something serious and it might involve a long legal process.

    But her statements made it seem that while Yunho and Changmin used that one hour to explain to their parents (which meant they were not present during the gathering of members), the other three parents didn’t even need that much time to understand or to agree to CJS’ decision (she even said that we’re all together in this), which could imply that she was either present at the meeting, or she already agreed to a decision made in the meeting within that one hour when the members contacted their parents.

    This is the reason I asked, because her statements really got me confused to who she is referring to. Even just one word could change the meaning of what she was talking about.

    Again, just my personal curiosity, I don’t really think it impacts anything significantly; I just want to really understand what she is talking about.

    Thanks again Precious for your translation and analysis...

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  127. Off topic

    Freya87@ I will quoted you (hope you dont mind)

    "As an onlooker I believe whatever JYJ said, thanks to allkpop article & comments. Moreover, this trueTVXQ wasn't existed prior December. Of course, I have big question about why Homin never join the 3, especially Yunho. Yunho is a very nice person from all the articles that I read, so why he doesn't join the supposedly brothers."

    I start to believe that people only worried about Yunho feelings since he looks more "nice person" than Changmin right?

    Tho I dont blame anyone to feel worried about Yunho because I care about his feeling too...

    But I feel very amused, I was reading many comments about How bad Yunho must feel this years, but seems like no one gives a damn about Changmin or dont pay atention to him or say something like "He must hate JYJ".

    Yes maybe people in the beggining put all the blame to Yunho (witch is not fair), but I do believe that Changmin as a maknae he feel very frustrated,sad,mad etc. He may can look all serious and yep his snarky personality dont help so much for people be in his shoes. What Im trying to say is that Changmin is not an arrogant b*tch who dont care their fans as people say that (even homin bias believe this), I dont want to pitty him, but I would like that fans can see a little more his human being too.

    PS: Thank u again Precious, since Im agree with everything you said even before I found this blog, thank you for give to the I-fans this oportunity to know the true with facts :)

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  128. @machangmin

    I never say & think that Changmin is arrogant b*tch. I just care more about Yunho because there are more articles about him than Changmin. Also, from 6.25 meeting, Yunho is the one to get blamed the most. That's all.

    I know Changmin care about his fans. I read about how he cares about his fans. Don't assume I think that Changmin is arrogant b*tch just because I care more about Yunho.

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  129. @machangmin
    did anyone here said negative about Changmin?
    I'll slap those fans who told that about CM.
    everybody who read Changmin.s father statement will understand how suffer he is.
    I remember How worried i am about him. im afraid he will go suicide.
    and Freya87 didnt say anything bad about Changmin. and become yunho's fans is a good news. nothing wrong with that.

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  130. @macachangmin

    I do understand your frustration. I do think that Changmin has been a bit obscured in this case, but at the same time, I think he is protected that way, he isn't as exposed to the hate and bashing that has been going on. Like you said, he is the youngest in the group, and while he is smarter than most, it must not have been easy for him to deal with any negative comment while he has his world ripped from under his feet.

    I personally love Changmin's snark more than anything. No matter what his antis might say, nobody ever dared to call Changmin a liar, because he is very blunt when it comes to his feelings. Nobody here disregards Changmin's feelings in this drama, we all acknowledge that he is going through every bit of the pain Yunho feels. I don't know who used such a nasty word to describe Changmin, but I never seen anyone here used it.

    One thing you might want to be careful is to accuse anyone not caring about Changmin like they do Yunho. Because I personally care very much for both of them, and am very grateful to Changmin for all the support and love he has given Yunho and vice versa.

    This is not a popularity contest between the two, so please don't immediately assume just because some people might worry more about Yunho because the amount of bashing he still have to endure that they don't care about Changmin.

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  131. @ hyeonmu
    I see what you mean now. Originally, Jaejoong's sister's statement didn't have a subject, so if I translated it directly, it would've sounded awkward in English, so I added "we" to the sentence because it was either CJS or CJS and their parents who asked HoMin why they changed their mind. There was a pause between her last statement and the one you are questioning, so I couldn't tell exactly who she was referring to in her statement. If it was a continuing sentence from her last statement, then "we" should've been "they". It is natural in Korean to speak without a subject in a sentence. Like you said, it really doesn't change much.

    @ macachangmin
    About Changmin: What hyonmu said. Let's be careful with the words we use here regarding the members. Thanks.

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  132. Ehhh people just relax...
    About Freya quote I took it as an exapmple I never say "why you dont support changmin and blah blah"

    Another thing, I never said that in this place people say negative things about Changmin (my comment was in general, I mean I was speakin about others site, not here)

    Why people overreact so much lately?
    Sorry if in my past post I dont clear this :)

    "arrogant b***" I used that phrase as an example, because I read this again and again for bash changmin D: tho I will never use it again here.

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  133. @ macachangmin
    I knew you were just quoting others from other places, so I didn't have any problem with that in itself. I just wanted everyone to be careful because it could become a sensitive issue, and also could be taken in negative way. Hope you understand.

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  134. Yeah I understand Precious^^
    Now I hope people understand my point since im not bashing anyone o.o

    Now I just wait to know about Forever, Im so curious.
    You can call me maca, its to long my username blog.

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  135. @ maca

    Cool. :)

    You'll be disappointed once I post about Forever. I'm almost there. :)

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  136. All this time, i'm just silent reader. but i always follow your analysis. And i can only say THANK YOU Precious

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  137. @precious

    Thanks for explaining. I knew it was probably caused by a different grammatical structure used in English and Korea. But I read it over and over and still didn't change my first reaction to the sentence.

    And I read the post on Forever that another fansite did... I have no clue why that person gave so many links that really leads nowhere but more theories and rumors, then again, I would be grateful if they can just provide us with an audio recording of this 623 meeting...

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  138. I love your blog. I've been following for quite some times now and you are doing amazing job to en light others about the lawsuit. Now I have the highest respect for Changmin and Yunho has endured the pains and suffering for last year. I'm totally disappointed in JYJ for turning theirs back on homin. I tried my best to understand their reasonings but their actions and words turn me off big time and their fans are pains in the ass. Thank you precoius for opening my eyes to see the truth.

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  139. @ dchanista
    Nice to know that my blog helped, thanks. :)

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  140. hey, just to say I totally appreciate this post and the whole blog itself. ever since the start of this whole hullabaloo, I've been worried for HoMin in the way a mother would when she learns her children are being bullied in school. perhaps, like an earlier comment on this thread, the fans of an older mental age are able to discern and distil the situation more carefully. having working experience in the media industry would probably help as well. the thing though is that in the start of this mess, while the fans were all rushing to JYJ, nobody spoke up for HoMin. nobody at all. any entry or comment that might have voiced a little support for the duo was squashed with anti-SM, pseudo-contract-law-know-how, and worse, 'five forever'. the moment JYJ filed that lawsuit, it was over. even if by some miracle the lawsuit is settled, the cracks are already there. there's no going back. what really breaks my heart is the friendship that was so true and pure - it's gone. and that shared camaraderie between the five was what was so attractive for me. it's a damn pity!

    I wish I could go on but I really don't want to kill your comment page. the main objective here is to thank you. thank you for your hard work here. I hope HoMin sees this and know that they are not alone, that there are fans with level heads and mature minds who can figure out what's right and what's not. Yunho and Changmin must stay strong. my heart would completely break otherwise.

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  141. @ paperclown
    Thanks for kind words. HoMin seems to be motivated with their career, so I don't think we need to worry about them.

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  142. i especially support homin and jyj.but after i gone through this blog.i think i've made my mind.i never will hate jyj and i dont want to but they did dissapoint me,.but for homin,,even b4 i read ur blog,,yunho is the one i respected,even though my bias is jaejoong..hehe...my heart is hurt for what cjs did bcuz i never have a thought they will be act like this.i think their relationship is very close than just a friend...actions speak louder that words.to notice u there's a site called 'thejyjfiles'...i've read abouthomin swith their stance on jyj.and there's many bashing come out from jyj's fans...i leave a comment that they should stop bashing someone else without knowing the truth.(even i know i will get bash)but i wanna know ur opinion about the article?is it true?

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  143. @tvxqlover

    hi. welcome! i'm glad you were able to check out this site and see the truth behind the split of the group. it really makes me sad to know how much damage the fans caused not only yunho and changmin but also their family members from the 6.25 meeting. it's amazing how those same lies still continue even today.

    sorry for butting in w/ my 2cents re: jyjfiles post about yunho & changmin changing their stance. i'm sure Precious will reply also but he did say that he was really busy now a days so thought i'd reply.

    i also read that post and i really loled. it is a ridiculous post. It just shows how those poor readers can’t think for themselves.

    the post notes how yunho & changmin first said the reason the 3 split up the group was due to the cosmetic co but then later changed by saying how the 3 were tempted and was not able to discern right from wrong. but, if you think about it, those are exactly the same things. the 3 were tempted by the cosmetic co's lure of potential wealth. they were not able to discern right (honor their contract (which they had no problem with until the cosmetic co came along) and continue with the group's dream and the promise they made not only to one another but to their many fans) from wrong (greed from what they thought they'd gain by investing in the company that not only uses shady business practices but also by planning to reap millions of dollars through illegal means). i don't see what the difference is. their stance is the same. it has always been the same. Yunho, Changmin, their fathers, SME all have been saying the same exact thing from the beginning-that the 3 sued for freedom to invest in the cosmetic company.

    and truly, i think most of us here would have been fine if the 3 wanted to leave TVXQ but the way they did it, by spreading lies at the 6.25 meeting and putting the blame on yunho and changmin is just wrong.

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  144. @tvxqlover
    the one who consistent with their statement and action is already in front our eyes. ^ ^
    never consult to lawyer bcs never think to leave SM. Sign conract with SM and still continue with that. still continue as TVXQ because they are TVXQ. still perform Rising sun because Rising sun is SM's song and TVXQ's song.
    I hope you didnt feel confuse anymore. because you are the most beautiful person in the world.
    Precious site is for those who really want to know what happen at 2009 because Yunho and Changmin so silence. as you see this site made at Thursday, December 23, 2010 by fans. quite late if compared to other site.. but riding all post will gave you different thought about mystery of TVXQ xD
    the conclusion is back to you to dear. but as you see TVXQ's lawsuit is not ordinary xDD
    that the reason so many people fighting outhere xDDD

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  145. I'm finding this blog of yours so impartial and objective that I´m just going to follow it. Congratulations and keep on posting new texts.

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  146. Thanks a lot for providing all these information and pointing out these 'problems' in the meeting.

    Honestly, I don't understand why JYJ fans have to bash HoMin and vice versa. Can't they just silently support their own biases instead of bashing each others' and causing even more hurt? When I first started following the news and rumours about the split, I actually supported JYJ. Even though Changmin's my bias (and so I encourage HoMin to do their best in the future), I felt JYJ had a lot of courage standing out and fighting for themselves. But now, after reading this blog, I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe it's not JYJ themselves, just their family members who spread the wrong things. But still, they shouldn't have started such a problematic meeting in the first place, cos it just seems to have amplified all the problems and hurt...

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  149. I will not believe in this translation because I know that there is something that might be wrong. Because we are only human and we can't say that we have all the same interpretations on what other people say. So, I'll stay neutral about this translation of yours. I'm not arguing or what, I'm just being honest with myself because its not yet confirm, I will believe it if it really came from JYJ's mouth. It was just their parents who said those statement but not JYJ.

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  150. @ lorain

    Well, then read the translation of this recording done by the JYJ fans. Theirs and mine are almost the same. To believe it or not, it's up to you.

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  151. I just found this website after I was searching for the information about the 625 meeting. I loved all five, I really believed and trusted those three as much as those two. I never had anything against SM because if SM were that bad, they wouldn't have all the sucsessful artists they did. I always thought Cjes were strange and shady.

    But I just continued to love them. They did so much and really I had no reason to believe they were trying to hurt Yunho and Changmin. But time went by and I started to feel something different, but I kept it to myself because... I was really scared of losing my friends. I lost them anyway, and then Heechul said in his interview about the money issue. Heechul and Yunho are really good friends, but he had been saying everything I had thought too. So I read the transcript from the 625 meeting again, but this time distancing myself as a fan and I really couldn't believe it. I did some searching and I came here. Another thing was... Yunho has always been my bias, and everyone kept saying 'he looks sad'... and to begin with he did look distant but ever since their Japanese promotions picked up again, he's started to smile properly again. People still kept saying he'd changed but... I know how OT5's will say anything to make themselves feel better because they hurt a lot, but.... people keep trying to tell Yunho he's upset when... he's moving on. The same with Changmin.

    I feel really disappointed in those three. It really hurts when someone you trust turns out to be the thing you were fighting against. I feel bad for Yunho and Changmin, I know how that type of betrayal from people who you think are your friends feels... and to put it lightly it really sucks.

    Thank you for posting all of this. As you've said, it's not easy for international fans to get hold of information like this, and especially not when you have certain CJS fansites twisiting translations to discredit Yunho and Changmin and SM even more. I can't imagine how hard you work on this site, but I'm really glad you did. To be honest, I feel a little lost now. Like a sheep who left the flock, if you understand what I mean. But I too feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders... I really thought I was imagining all of this stuff concerning CJS just because I was getting tired of everything... I'm glad I wasn't... well... I wish I hadn't been right, but... well I'm rambling now, haha.

    Thank you again! ^^

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  152. This is clearly you own analysis only. How the hell do you know what really happened and who said what and how do you even try to claim the ability to make CONCLUSIONS? Jeez, people, you have no better ways of spending your time? The court will have a verdict, and in any case, it already did say that SM's contract with JYJ is unlawful. "TVXQ must pay for all of the expenses required for their activities and this implies the wages for their managers and road managers. TVXQ must pay for their travel fees and rent fees, as well as their meals, make up and coordinators’ wages, dance crew and any other stage crew costs." Which means that at the end of the day, even with the 70% net profit share of overseas activities they probably saw PENNIES of what they earned and everything else went to SM, while SM did shit for them aside from promotion. They even had to pay the managers, the dance crew, the makeup artists. Jeesus. And then you dare say this contract was FAIR? Can you imagine how much money SM earned with TVXQ's activities? I'd be mad as shit if my employer tried to have a contract like this signed. This is a pure slave contract nothing else. SM basically has no responsibilites in thsis fucking contract, everyhing has to be kept up by TVXQ and if anything goes wrong they have to pay SM fines. This is ridiculous!

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    1. You obviously didn't read my analysis of the contract since you are repeating the stuff some anti-SM/anti-TVXQ people are spreading regarding the expenses. As with any businesses, there are costs involved, which includes the stuff you listed (plus more), but if you read the contract, it's not TVXQ that pays for everything. (you did read the contract, didn't you?) The way it works is that there is gross profit, then you deduct the cost of doing business to get the net profit. TVXQ gets 70% from the net profit, and SM gets 30%. That is how most businesses operate, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's all written in the contract so instead of blindly trusting the lies others are spreading, I suggest you read the contract yourself and figure it out. It's funny that you used the word "net profit", but have no idea what it actually means.

      As for your other arguments, I already explained most of it in many posts I made, so I'm not going to repeat them here.

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