Saturday, January 29, 2011

Crebeau stores

Now I'm going to post about how actual Crebeau stores did business.

I've shown how expensive the products were, and wrote about brief history of Crebeau. From those information, it is not hard to determine that there was no way for most people to buy expensive cosmetics products from a company that was never heard of. Then who would buy the products? TVXQ fans, naturally.

We all know how devoted TVXQ fans are towards their artists, so they make perfect customers for the products. So here's how they sold the products.

This is a promotional event for the Crebeau-Jeff (Jaejoon's store). You get an autograph from the CEO of Jeff by drawing when you buy the cosmetics product before the end of event (June 9th, 2009)



These pictures look like they came from Taiwanese fans. The pictures show the merchandises they received with the purchase. I'm sure they were happy to buy the products and getting those goods. I'm also sure they proudly left glaring reviews about the product on their blogs or forums.



Basically, the products are sold by luring the fans with TVXQ merchandises, even with pictures including HoMin.

I'm sure some of the readers saw posts boasting about buying Crebeau products by fans from fan sites or personal blogs. Those fans usually post pictures of the extra merchandise they received and write raving reviews about the products prompting other fans to buy.


Next, this is how they did business with Japanese fans. Unlike Korean fans who are mostly young, there are more Japanese fans that are older, and that means more money to spend, and since TVXQ was huge in Japan, it was really easy for them to target Japanese fans to buy the cosmetics products. Following are some examples of Japanese promotion.

I don't know Japanese, so I'll just summarize what's written in Korean. Hotelinfo sounds like a travel agency, and it's offering a travel package for TVXQ's Beijing concert, and upon completion of reservation, you receive Crebeau products as 'Special Present'. On the bottom, there's an advertisement for Crebeau. Again, they used pictures of all 5 members.




Mozart tour package. The tour is for 2 days/3 nights, and the tour includes visits to the city of Daegu, Pizza restaurant, Cosmetics store, and the Ice Cream shop (Yuchun's). I guess a die hard fan may actually like it. If you download the pictures on your computer, you should be able to read what's in Japanese. I increased the size of the picture, but it still loads up small.



Then here are some comments posted by Japanese fans in 2009 from an old 2ch.net thread. My translations are from Korean translation, so some meaning may have changed, but the overall translation should be ok. I tried the google translator with the link, but it only translates the top portion of the page, so just find the comments with the post number, then copy and paste the text on the translator. I didn't spend too much time translating these, so they sound awkward, but you should understand what they say.

The comments are from this link.

235.
ジェジュンの化粧品って有害成分使ってるのに名古屋店とかオ?プンしてへいきなの?
ユチョンみたいに
20万以上買ったらユチョンのママと??取れるキャンペ?ンみたいなのやらないよね
 

Jaejoong's cosmetics use hazardous ingredients, but Nagoya store is opening?
I hope he doesn't run campaign like Yuchun, taking pictures with Yuchun's mother when you buy more than 200,000
 
237.
20万以上買ったら
そんなのあったの?
ユチョンには興味あってもママにはないぞw
when buying more than 200,000?
Yuchun yes, but not interested in his mother.

 
238.
化粧品?社の?員に告知されてた

有害成分と妊娠中の羊殺して採った胎盤の化粧品で金儲けなんて
日本では嫌われるだけだよね…
せっかく?れてきたのに
The cosmetics company's employee told me
they're making money using hazardous substances and placenta from killing pregnant sheep
going to be hated in Japan
just started to get popular  

 
240.
有害成分入りの化粧品に20万以上使った特典が
オンマと??ってまた?わからん事を

オンマはオンマであってそれ以上でも以下でもないのに。
勘違いも程?にしてくれ

Paying over 200,000 for cosmetics made with hazardous ingredients
and you take pictures with Yuchun's mother? What is this?
Mother is just a mother, nothing more. Don't be nuts.


290.商?の仕方が果てしなく下品だし希望なさすぎる

化粧品屋の3人て自分の歌手としての才能に
自信ないのかな?
自分の才能もファンのことも全く信用してないような
行動してるように感じる
Selling method is really cheap. There's no hope.
Don't the 3 in the cosmetics business have confidence in their talent as singers?
Feels like they don't trust their abilities or the fans.


*  The following replies do not have a link to the original thread. I just copied them from a blog.

お父さんに車に?せられてお母さんの化粧品店に連れていかれるらしい
怖い
       
When a fan from Japan eats Pizza from Junsu's father's restaurant, he drives you to mother's cosmetics store. Scary.


926.
????屋行ったら火山????に???の化粧品屋行けとしつこく言われたお
さすがに引いた
Junsu's father was insisting on visiting the cosmetics store. Hated it.
927.
若い子は???されたって
金持ってそうな???限定みたいだよw
Young kids were ignored. Seemed like for only older woman who looks rich.

929.
その化粧品連行??あたしのマイミクだけかと思ったら、みんなされてるのね(爆)
でも、連れてかれた本人は「自分だけ」だと思ってよろこんで感動してたから、
そっとしとこ??。化粧品自?はよかったらしいけど。
 Taking to cosmetics store, I though I was the only one (LOL)
But when I was going I was happy because I thought I was only one.
The product seemed good.

 
933.
ジュンスの家族に日本人から稼ごうと必死なんだね
も?おばさんはそれに引っかかって買っちゃうのか
金づるにされててむなしい??
韓?に行った事ない私にはジュンス親にかかわらないからいいが~買う日本人がいるのがやだな~

Junsu's family is trying hard to make money from Japanese.
Older women are stuck with it.
Only thought as source of money, it's a shame.
I've never been to Korea so it's good that I didn't have to deal with Junsu's parents, but hate it that there's a Japanese who purchased..

 
938.
全て日本人向けでしょ?カシオペアは若いし、お金もないし、?り付けられない。なら、日本人ってこと?親が出しゃばるといけない?がする。

All for Japanese? Can't sell to Cassies because they're young and don't have money. Then Japanese? It's not right for the parents to push.

 
939.
親が出てくるとややこしくなるし、本人達のイメ?ジもダウンするよね

If parents get involved, it becomes complicated, and their images go down.

946.
ピザ屋まではいいけど、化粧品は自己責任でしょ。ジュンスの?親は何考えてるんだろ?

Pizza restaurant is ok, but cosmetics is his own responsibility. What are Junsu's parents thinking?

962.
ジュンスのサイン貰えるから先月ピザ屋に行ってきた
化粧品を?めるお父さんが必死すぎて悲しくなったよ

I went to the pizza restaurant last month because I was told I can get Junsu's autograph.
I was saddened because Junsu's father desperately pushed the cosmetics.


Pretty shocking, isn't it?

It sounds like the parents (especially one particular parent) were really pushing the Japanese fans to buy the cosmetics products whenever they visit Korea. When fans visited Junsu's father's pizza restaurant, he pushed the fans hard to buy the cosmetics, even personally driving the fans to the store. Then there's the ridiculous promotion of taking picture with Yuchun's mother when a fan purchases over 200,000 (probably Korean Won) worth of cosmetics. The worst part was that the Japanese fans (or non-fans) recognized that they were specifically targeted as customers because older Japanese women have more money than typical young fans. It's no wonder many Japanese fans stopped supporting CJS. A tour package that includes all the retailers CJS own? That's just too much.

It's quite embarrassing actually. So it's really not that hard to see that these people will pretty much do anything for money.

59 comments:

  1. Wow, I don't even have words to express whatever I'm feeling at this moment. I don't want to believe that JYJ is bad, but I think they were pulled in the wrong direction and they went further and further down that path.

    Their parents are probably the ones who started it too. I think it's hard to believe that JYJ would sacrifice all those years of training and promoting non-stop for a non-popular unethical cosmetic company.

    Either way, personality wise, even before all of this started, Changmin and Yunho were my favourites. I'm glad HoMin stayed clear of the business. They worked hard for TVXQ and they don't believe in tarnishing it.

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  2. hahahaha---

    commenting about Yuchun's mother... I was quite shock as well the first time I knew that Kpop artists/entertainment world love to link anything with parents ^^;;;
    Surely for Japanese fans, taking a photograph with the parents is something 'WTF' xD

    oh, and as far as i know japanese really hate this kind of thing, really. They respect people with constant effort and hardwork, who do the job because they love it, and not because of money/popularity.

    and it's ironic that some JYJ stans said that JYJ want out of SM because SM treat them like tools/typical idols, and they want to be more serious musicians.

    I mean, what have they done to themselves? Merchandising selves to sell products?

    It was hard to accept this, really... sometimes I wish I was originally a Homin bias, it would be easier -_-;;

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  3. oh, and i really cant believe how Homin could stay silent about this and endure it for 2 years....
    I bet they knew it.... they even knew about the rumors about Yunho's dad has debt in SM and Homin were promised positions/stocks in SM... they must have known things like this.

    If I were Homin, I would've done nasty things like making a home video on YouTube where I'd lash JYJ with toilet words... either that or come to them and punched them in the face.

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  4. >__< now im just depressed for jyj. this sounds like its about bad/immature decisions and being pushed over by the parents. it's probably not entirely coincidental that homin's parents didn't fall for the ruse, because the whole business would look suspicious to any educated adult who at least did a little bit of research.

    when the pictures of these crebeau stores first surfaced two years back, i was like, come on that's not a real store, that's a room with jyj pictures in it. it was pretty sickening because i guess i was younger and in the mentality where i idealized/deified the boys, and all of a sudden the three of them were doing very earthly and very greedy (by all appearances). if one of them was my bias i would have found it very difficult to reconcile what they said and what they did.

    great post precious. really drove home how involved jyj's parents were and how shady the business was.

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  5. I was wondering why you only mention those comments out of a thousand so I checked with google translator. It seems like that particular forum is just a general TVXQ thread?

    It seems like the parents should be subject the brunt of the blame here but JYJ had an obligation to not abuse their fans, and they utterly failed here.

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  6. the most saddest part of this is that they INCLUDED HOMIN PICTURES in the promotion when they have NOTHING to do with this. Just use their own picture (JYJ) for promotion than I would not mind as much, but seriously... If I know that they still use the name TVXQ or HoMin pictures to promote the products than I'll major piss... grrrrrr!!!!

    it seem the business doesn't doing well for them to be this desperate trying to get fan to buy it, and it sad that they pushing them hard. I personally doesn't like people come to me and keep on trying to get me to buy or do something... that is why I hate it when people from non-profit trying to raise money for helpless kid around the world... I don't mind to help them a little (if it just donate some money right there - like with Salvation Army or boy/girl scout by buying their product) but I seriously DOESN'T want to give my credit card number and let them automatically draw money from my bank monthly, and the worse part is that they stubbornly trying to get you to help (aka your credit card number), and I actually miss my bus to go home TWICE because of them... so I understand how these fans feel (the frustration)... it sad...

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  7. Can i just say it's disgusting

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  8. I think I'm most annoyed on the behalf of HoMin simply because CreBeau didn't just use JYJ - they used the entire TVXQ name to advertise their products. If JYJ wanted to invest in that company, even thought it sounds very shady, then it's one thing but CreBeau should have USED JYJ's name and images - not TVXQ. If anything, I think HoMin are the ones who deserve compensation.

    Based on your translations/explanations, I feel like tbqh JYJ doesn't really have a case. At first it seemed like they would win, but it just seems like it was only the lawyers using words/implying certain things to skew what was happening and JYJ supporters/sympathizers took it from there.

    All the Japanese comments about how Junsu and Yoochun's parents can make it seem like the parents were the main driving force and combined with Mr. Shim and Mr. Jung's that only seems to further prove that, to which i say JYJ should have prevented their parents from taking advantage of their fans. But then again it could be that they were just supporting their sons. Of course, we won't know that unless someone speaks up, but regardless, this is just kind of sinking my opinion of JYJ lower.

    However, I think what annoys me the most is how they've been playing the fans/media over this situation.

    I know that SM isn't the saint here, and I'm sure HoMin aren't 100% innocent either, but SM is a business, and of course it wants to protect its interests. The only thing we really have in life is our name and our family, so I can completely empathize with HoMin for wanting to protect theirs. :/ It's a pity theirs got dragged under the mud despite that. Ugh.

    Thank you for all your hard work, Precious.

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  9. SHOCKING is exactly the word that describes what i felt when i read your post and pity because they seem so desperate.tsk tsk

    i sort of understand Hangeng filing a lawsuit against SM and i respect him for not ranting/whining about everything SM does. one article i've read he even defended SM from false rumors(about pimping their artists etc.) a while i totally lost respect for JYJ after what they had done tarnishing someone's reputation to gain pity out of the fans. *shakes head*

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  10. what i can say here is JYJ is desperate..look at the way junsu's father approach the fan..that's why i think homin make correct decision because only wise and educated person will think all this crebeau business is nonsense..besides,this also show how wise/educated homin's parent than JYJ's..sorry,i didn't mean to insult them but after reading this post,that is what my true feeling is..

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  11. @katherinerosellemanois

    i agree with you..i also read the article about hangeng..one thing about hangeng case is when he filed lawsuit,he only stayed quiet and let the court decide..i don't see any tweets or article about him telling the world about how bad sm is and how he received bad treatment from sm..

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  12. The whole thing sounds really cheap, really.

    I remember I read a fan account on dbsknights about a Jappanese fan meeting JJ's sister at her cosmetic shop and they were introduced to products that the sister said JJ was using. And of course the fans bought all of those.
    Ah I found it http://www.dbsknights.net/2010/02/fanaccount-100223-jaejoongs-sister-jae.html

    I wonder why at that time I didn't link it with everything SM was trying to say to us, that JYJ left mainly because of the cosmetic business.

    Anyway, the way their families do it, the way they play victims and most importantly the way they ask us to AKTF (oh what faith? hello!!) feels really really cheap.

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  13. @bubba

    it has been said that hangeng's lawsuit was a business move but i don't really care what his reason is for leaving as long as he doesn't damage his other super juniors members reputation by continuing to push the "slave" concept.

    if only JYJ learned from Hangeng no fanwars, no relationships destroyed and such.

    and i've read an article that states that nicole got advice from jaejoong and looked at what happened KARA's reputation was damaged. i just hope it is repairable.

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  14. *sign* this is sooo SHOCKING!!! i never ever thought that 'money' can drive CJS do this with TVXQ! i always have a faith on them, that they have their own reasons to make this decision but ... becoz of this cosmetic business grrrrr....rr 'unacceptable'. TVXQ who's recognized by thier talents throughout Asia is being tarnished by such a cosmetic! i don't know what to say anymore huh~~~
    i just really hope Fans would not be blinded anymore ...

    @ lapis.lazuli im so sad with ur point that HoMin stayed silent for two yrs T____T esp.Yunho who was always attacked by rumors,even his family! how can CJS, their families, their supporters do this with HoMin ... so scary!

    Precious ... thankssssssssss, it's really a great work of you(again)! to find many infos for us. take good care urself!

    ReplyDelete
  15. @Precious
    Wow, you also know about Japanese tours and 2ch?! Amazing.

    I verified the Japanese-to-English translation. They are accurate, except 929 is about her Mixi friend, not herself.:), but it doesn’t matter.


    This tour thingy is well known in Japan.

    Actually many Japanese fans are happy to visit their shops, meet their parents and buy something, but the placenta has been controversial from the very beginning, and now some are starting to think they are too pushy and it seems like they see Japanese fans as ATMs.
    I feel they are tarnishing their image by themselves.


    Japanese media say ‘Kara’s case and TVXQ’s case both happened immediately after they succeeded in Japan. It may be related to success in Japan.’

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  16. This is such HUGE embarrassment...
    Really tarnish K-idol in general... =.=;;;;

    What I can say now... Thank God Yunho and Changmin do not involve in this business. Make me respect them more and more.

    Thanks precious ^^

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  17. after this, i honestly wish JYJ would win the lawsuit, get out of SM and never associate with TVXQ/Homin again ... why? ... because if they lost, sure they'll rant, whine and their fans will bash SM/Homin like there'r no tomorrow ... i seriously want them to leave TVXQ/Homin alone

    ReplyDelete
  18. @kenda

    lol! actually that's what me and my friends have been campaigning about! we're crazily joining the #JYJwin trending in twitter recently, because of that reason xD
    But then if they win, their fans would be like, "see? even the court is on JYJ's side! They agree about SM's slave contract!" and the term 'slave contract' will be forever attach in SM... I just feel sorry for their artists, really.
    But then again I've read a kind of 'joke' that JYJ stans might burn SM's building if their hero lose the case... -_-;;; (and oh, it must be SM bribing the court)

    ReplyDelete
  19. @ kenda & lapis.lazuli

    LOL, I personally want CJS to just do their own thing so I don't care if they win the lawsuit, but if they do, anti-SM/HoMin fans will have a field day bashing them left and right, so I would prefer SM to win the lawsuit to just quiet them down.

    @ Lisalio

    Yes, it's actually well known amongst Korean fans, and non-fans too. Non fans are actually furious about this because the money grabbing not only tarnishes TVXQ reputation, but really embarrasses Korea in general.

    @ pumpkiepie

    Thank you for the link. I'm sure there are plenty of those "happy cosmetics purchase" fanaccounts on the net.

    @ all

    Yes, I have no problem with Hangeng's lawsuit. Even if he filed just for his well being or money (I'm not saying he did), I wouldn't have too much problem with that either because he was quiet doing his own thing and took care of the lawsuit pretty quick.

    ReplyDelete
  20. @ Lisalio

    About the split happening after the success in Japan, I'm sure it had a big effect. Even for US artists, the trouble between members starts after the success because of egos and greed creeping in. Money really changes people.

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  21. @Precious

    But in Japan, groups usually last for a long time (Arashi 12 years, SMAP 20 years, w-inds 10 years, and so on) before and even after success. They go through thick and thin, because Japs really appreciate the loyalty and people who dont forget their roots. Even when they want to try solo, they do it without neglecting their agency/members.

    What im trying to say is im afraid this and Kara's incident might make K-idols look like they cant handle success/get big headed easily...

    and what fans often not realize is, that TVXQ was only "starting" to get popular in Japan, unlike its reputation in Asia that have always been popular. it's a pity that its reputation was tarnished just when they get started, and now Homin should start all over again. :(

    ReplyDelete
  22. @ lapis.lazuli

    Yes, I understand what you are saying. Compared to Japanese entertainment industry, the Korean industry's success is relatively young. I guess Kara hasn't learned anything from TVXQ situation.

    Kara is just one Korean idol. SNSD, Super Junior (except one member), and Big Bag and other groups seem to be handling it fine.

    I do agree that Kara incident is a big hit on K-idols' reputation because negatives always stand out over positives. I hope their situation gets resolved really quick, but I'm afraid the damage is done already.

    As for TVXQ, I'm not sure if they need to start all over again considering the number of sales for the "Why" singles in Japan. It's too early to be safe, but I don't think we need to worry about them too much. :)

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  23. I can't fully understand how HoMin managed to keep mum after all these. They had been sent to hell when they've really done nothing wrong. Yunho - who always had TVXQ's best interests at heart. He who cares for the group the most. and Changmin... no wonder he's so mad.

    I wish SM wins the lawsuit so those crazy people out there (I'm not really sure if they'd be able to comprehend it) would see how everything started and how not-so-innocent JYJ really are as much as they claim.

    Hangeng's case was totally different because during their debut period, SM made him wear a mask to cover his whole face because he was only allowed to appear in 3 broadcasting stations. so SM thought of this inhumane (forgive me for the lack of a better word) way as to not ruin the choreography of the dance. I think this was also one of the evidences presented during the trial. and after Hangeng's lawsuit came about, SJ members once said that they were shocked of his decision since he never talked to them about it but they also expressed that it might have been partly their fault for not taking better care of their foreign member. Still, SJ, SM and Hangeng stated that they are all still willing to work together again.

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  24. wow, i can not even begin to explain how angry i am right now. it's okay if they want to promote the product with their idol images, but using fans' love to gain more money? who. the. fuck. would do that to his/her loyal fans? to the people who pretty much live for them? so now we're just a bunch of money sacks waitinf to be milked out? and then ignored when a new and bigger money sack has been found?

    my god.

    and the promotion things. the heck are those? a photo with yoochun's mom? what? and pushing fans to buy the cosmetics? have they got no shame? ..though i doubt the latter. everything is pretty much transparent now. and that yunho poster urghhhh....

    i hope the group's image won't be damaged that much in japan, seeing how it's lile a well known thing of how japanese fans are targeted to buy the cosmetics. idc anymore if it ruin their own image, but please leave the other two out of this.

    urgh how am i supposed to go to sleep now? -and thank you, as usual..

    ReplyDelete
  25. hye im just happen to leave this comment.
    after all damn thing that happen to homin.Hell,
    there is no way I want CJS to win the lawsuit.
    All this mess happen b/c of them, so they need take the responsibility of what they had done!

    ReplyDelete
  26. God---i think, in the end i'll finish hating JYJ...i don't want do that D: i believed in the 5...i thought they were like brothers...

    ReplyDelete
  27. I didn’t really want to believe this, but seen the number of advertisement jyj is doing now that they are out of SM does make it suspicious, cause they never “sold” their image so much with SM but now that they are alone they are doing it like crazy

    ReplyDelete
  28. Junsu's dad driving fans to the cosmetics shops... that's really tacky and desperate, but it doesn't surprise me *ducks* Eek. But his parents always reminded me of those beauty pageant moms, all starved for fame and recognition and doing everything they could to get it through their kid. Even from an interview back in... 2007 or so, I remember thinking their whole attitude about Junsu and TVXQ was just way beyond normal and creeped me out. Blah. Usually wouldn't bring family in cuz that's low, but they seem to be a pretty integral of the problem here.

    Think people have to have a strong and grounded center to not let fame/money get to them. Which is pretty much what Changmin's advice was to hoobaes. They all got into the industry when they were really young, so I can kinda understand how CJS got swept up in a lot of things. But things like allowing their fans to be used so thoroughly and shamelessly, and lately they've been saying and doing quite a lot themselves to directly manipulate their fans and their emotions.. I cannot understand that. It's beyond just disappointment, it's a complete turn off.

    Oh.. that reminds me, Crebeau's CEO pressed charges against a bunch netizens for slander awhile ago, right? And I think that's partially what prompted SM to file a countersuit against Crebeau after Crebeau's lawsuit against them was dropped? When I heard about that I was just like... wow, that's pretty low and pathetic to be going after fangirls. And I wonder how CJS felt about that, even knowing those netizens were spreading stuff against them, they were still originally their fans too - how would CJS possibly be able to feel ok with their company pressing charges against Cassies, former or not? And I wonder if they were aware of it, and if they had any say in it.. as the shareholders with 62.5% ownership of the company.

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  29. @ rosetta16

    Yup. The signs are everywhere if you really look for them.

    @ biathanatos

    About the lawsuit against the fans, I'm pretty sure they knew it, and they must've had a say in it, but didn't say anything. I know they are aware of that particular fan forum because there are some pictures of Jaejoong surfing that site.

    One of the reason SM quoted as their reason for suing Crebeau was to protect the fans.

    ReplyDelete
  30. @ Precious and biathanatos

    I didn't know Crebeau's CEO pressed charges against some netizens... what did they do to slander the company image? And I didn't know protecting the fan from Crebeau's CEO charges waas part of the reason. I only know the reason was due to the company damage reputation. I wonder how much I didn't know - learning something news everyday :). And Precious, what fan forum you speak of in replied to biathatos?

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  31. My friend and I have always thought that the lawsuit had something to do with their families, but reading this still came as a shock. I don't think JYJ are evil, but money can surely destroy anything. Whatever their problem was with SM - be it money or the length of the contract or tiredness, etc - I always thought that HoMin did not participate because their parents protected them when they signed the contracts and made sure everything was OK for their sons. And now I've come to believe it more than ever.

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  32. @ Hotaru
    The fans talked about the ingredients (placenta), multi-level marketing, how small actual company was etc. Basically what I've talked about in my posts. It was against the fans in Daum TVXQ gallery. I'll probably post about the fans, how much fight they had to go through etc, and you'll learn more about them then. :)

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  33. Hi Precious. I know I'm off topic here but I want to know whats K-cassies say about SM opening the official fanclub and accepting new members. A lot of JYJ fans are enraged because they say that it's only for new tvxq or HoMin fans. And they also say that SM is trying to split the fanbase and signaling that TVXQ is now just HoMin because SM used the term "Cassiopeia 3rd term" or something like that. As for me, 3rd term means this is the 3rd time they are accepting new members. Did the official fanclub a 2nd batch of applicants after the 1st time it was founded?

    and yeah, anyone knows what OT5 stands for? I know it means the 5 members but I want to know how it started. I must have been living in another galaxy that time.

    Thanks again for the hard work, Precious.

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  34. @ assassine

    It's the same in Korea. JYJ fans hate it, TVXQ fans love it. It does mean 3rd time accepting the members, but since the current members of TVXQ are HoMin, so yes, it's only for the 2. I don't think there's any other way, is there?

    SM trying to split the fanbase is a nonsense. The fans split the moment the lawsuit was filed into many groups: HoMin fans, CJS fans, fans supporting all 5, fans giving up etc. SM and HoMin waited almost 2 years after the injunction was filed for the 3 to come back without saying much (released one statement each), and now anti-SM fans are blaming SM for splitting the fans? What is SM supposed to do, wait forever for the 3 to come back?

    I'm guessing OT5 stands for Original TVXQ 5. I don't know how it started.

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  35. @ assassine and precious

    based on one of DBSK fanfiction community definition (on tags and posting guidelines)

    OT5: Denotes fanfiction depicting a relationship between or friendship amongst all five members.

    but it could be what precious guessing...

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  36. @ Hotaru, assassine

    Hotaru may be right. I was purely guessing. :)

    ReplyDelete
  37. Dear Precious...

    I gotta say this, Even when you make my head spin as I try to digest all this information and sources while still keeping up with what Yunho and Changmin are doing, I love every bit of it. And I know I am not the only one. So thank you again, not only for sharing with us what you have found, but to also provide link and sources so even the skeptics could go and see themselves if they have enough will to do it.

    Ever since I stepped into this fandom merely months ago, there is one big question that nags me and Contries had failed to answer logically (I decided to come up with a nickname for the fans who seems comfortable spouting big words like 'evil SM' and 'slave contracts' to differentiate them with Cassies, because even when they claim they are, they aren't) is why Yunho and Changmin didn't file the lawsuit.

    One of the most repeated statement is, "because Yunho is gay and SM threatens him to expose his secret if he leaves". I remember telling myself... Now that sounds like a plot from a fanfiction, lol. And when I ask for a source, most of them come up with 'I heard it from a friend who heard from a friend who is close to this KCassie who heard it from an SM employee'.

    Yeah... that info is not even juicy enough to even make it to gossip columns, much less an evidence in court. Even if Yunho is gay and SM threatens him, that doesn't explain why Changmin stays with him, is Changmin gay too now?

    But knowing what I know (how little it is) about Yunho and Changmin from their interviews and what the other members say about them, the thought process you provided fits it quite nicely, so far, everything has been consistent. Yunho and Changmin has been consistent, so are the people around them.

    Just wondering, have you read all the articles on how SM failed repeatedly to register "TVXQ" as a trademark? I just read this http://bit.ly/frZucO today and suddenly I find myself looking up Korean sites, lol

    -M-

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  38. @ hyeonmu
    Exactly. When you try to solve this puzzle without the cosmetics business, there are many pieces that don't fit, especially why HoMin didn't leave. But with cosmetics business in place, everything just makes sense. :)

    I'd just ignore those baseless rumors. That was the first time I heard about it actually.

    As for the trademark, SM failed to get some, but they own the trademark for "TVXQ", each member's stage name, and also the rights to the music (CD, tapes, mp3 etc.), so SM's failure to get the trademark is only partially true. They just failed to get trademarks for Korean name "Dong Bang Shin Ki" and Chinese letters (東方神起).

    ReplyDelete
  39. @Precious
    what @ hyeonmu said about TVXQ's name has been buzzing in my head the moment JYJ biased fans were saying stuff like '' JYJ CHOSE not to use or sing TVXQ's name because they respect HoMin ...etc''
    I told them that the trio had no choice when it come to using TVXQ's name because it is labeled and own by SM.
    That's something known but they kinda bashed me saying that i am on SM's side.
    They are using this to attack SM and HoMin by saying that SM doesn't own the name.
    Again, the trio are portrait as angels and heroes where as Homin and SM are portrait as the devils.
    They even translated selected articles that have no solid evidence.
    Lately, anyone who says the truth is biased and on SM's side.
    and finally thank you so much for all your hard work i really appreciate it.
    i want to ask your permission to translate your posts to spread this refreshing point of view that we were unable to see.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hi Precious

    I really appreciate the hard work you've put in to let everyone know the what going on with tvxq members and I just want to thank you.

    But I must ask if I may have permission to give out the link to your blog so that people will know the truth about tvxq?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  41. @Precious:
    I never knew SME also own trademark for their stages name, then I searched it kipris.co.kr, u r right ^^. They own member's stage names. Then once again, why Junsu still use his stage name for promotion ? His japanese single even called Xiah. Does the court let them to use their stage name until the lawsuit is over ? And when the lawsuit is over, whether JYJ win or not, they can't use their stage names right ?

    Plus.. I also just found out tht SM also updating the trademark for CM and YH's stage name (in hangul and chinese) recently (2010/09/03). While there is no update for the other 3 stage names. Does it sign tht SME has already 'given them up' ? :P
    I just wonder though...

    Thanks precious

    ReplyDelete
  42. @ mj_dj21, ayeopan
    I just made a post regarding the issue.

    @ ayoepan
    As for Junsu's single, it probably has something to do with Avex and Japanese trademark, but I'm not certain. CJS didn't use their TVXQ stage names for Korean activities.

    In my opinion, TVXQ coming back with just HoMin meant that SM had given up on the 3.

    @ all
    I actually want the readers to spread the info from my blog by links or translations and have no problem with doing so as long as the original source is provided.

    ReplyDelete
  43. @ayoepan

    The KIPRIS site made my head spin. I can't believe how many of the articles about SM's "failure" to register the name omitted those facts. I felt so betrayed and hurt when I saw that all their stage names were registered. For me, that's a more logical reason why they use the name "JYJ" and use the ENGLISH version of their names to promote themselves.

    I'm not saying that JaeChunSu are lying, I think they truly believe in what they said about the name option, because maybe they don't know much about legal proceedings.

    But an entertainment agency who publishes their works should know all about the trademark law.

    ReplyDelete
  44. @hyeonmu
    LOL@ the "yunho is gay and SM is threatening to expose him and that's why he won't leave SM" theory - I think I came across something like that before but totally as a joke to the whole "yunjae is real!!" thing. Where are you going that that is "one of the most repeated statments"? I am going to guess that people saying that and actually believing it are die-hard delusional Yunjae fanatics. They can be a scary bunch.
    And I think CJS cannot possibly be THAT ignorant about the names and trademarking. They might not have been lying outright, but they left a lot unsaid and left even more up to implication/interpretation. Which has pretty much been their modus operandi. Ah, except that occasionally they or their various PR reps do lie outright, but luckily CJS has a hugely fanatic and blindly loyal fanbase that covers up/denies/justifies away anything that could trip themselves up. But I think that's caused more instability for them in the long run than anything.

    http://sharingyoochun.net/2010/01/28/fanaccount-091218-visiting-crebeau-jeff/ <--some photos of the Crebeau Jeff shop. Honestly, if I didn't know anything about the store or band I would think it was some creepy/tacky idol shrine/fanshop. Would never guess the shop had anything to do with cosmetics. And the cherry on top is the flower wreath which says: "Boojah dweh saeyo" :: "Become rich." <--LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  45. I was reading this like really slowly so I could process the information and WOW it's alot. I always had the feeling that Jaejoong wasn't very innocent but it's quite shocking and disappointing. This really gives me a better understanding about the crebreau cosmetic issue, that most sites seem to skim pass. That Junsu's parents, Jaejoong's sisters and Yoochun's mom are involved is quite embarrassing for me. I think it is simply not appropriate. The cosmetic shop always seemed like a sham to me since it first came t light, what with the zillions of pictures that make it look like a fan-shrine. The 6.25 gathering thing seems like it might hold some truth if the family is truly so twisted. Though I think it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
    Thank you for your keen analysis :)
    Even though I hope more JYJ fans can read this, I think I wouldn't want baseless arguments here LOL

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hi. I stumbled upon this post today, and it was a very interesting read. I would, however, like to voice my doubts about using comments from 2ch as a source of information. Even in Japan, 2ch is notorious for spreading rumours and behaviour otherwise known in the English speaking internet world as 'trolling'. I speak Japanese and have lived in Japan for about 2 years and a bit now, so I went through the thread to have a look. The amount of hate in that place was pretty amazing. Even before people started talking about the cosmetic business, there was a lot of hate directed at individual members and I'm not sure if these comments may all be taken as comments from the "Japanese fans". I'm not even sure the label "fan" should be applied here at all. A lot of the thread seemed more like an anti-heaven.

    I wouldn't rule out the possibility that things like the members' parents encouraging fans to go the cosmetic shops did actually take place, but I really wouldn't get my information from sites like 2ch. Individual fan blogs, yes, but I would think twice about citing 2ch as a source.

    Otherwise, thank you for the article! :)

    ReplyDelete
  47. @ kagen
    Hi,

    Yeah, I know about 2ch, but the fact the cosmetics business gave those people on 2ch excuses to bash TVXQ was good enough reason to post it. Maybe I shouldn't have called the 2ch users fans.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Precious,
    You are doing amazing job here. I am trying to let peploe know anout this blog....i hope that helps to spread the truth.

    I wonder if it's ok to post your website and some comments to Korean website?
    I like to pass this foreigner's reaction and their message to Korean fans.
    TVXQ fans would love to hear that there are more people understand about jyj and tvxq.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Hi Precious,
    I´m reading your blog for 1 month. It takes me a lot time to absorb this sh.t. Thank you for gathering all this info and giving us the chance to look deeper at the case.
    May I have a question? What is your opinion in reuniting DBSK as 5 again? Or anybody else´s ?

    I personally didn´t like the idea of DB5K even before I found your blog. I knew there was a big reason, they got separated. As I see it HoMin will stay as duo for next few years. Then Yunho will go to the army. Only after his return there might be a chance of starting again. That´s what I think.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Stella

      In my opinion, getting 5 again won't bring the old magic back, and actually, it will tarnish the TVXQ brand, at least for me. I am sure there would be others who'd want to have them back, but I am pretty certain most of TV2XQ fans would be against it. Besides, YH & CM don't need the other 3 as proven by their success. I personally am against it, no question about it. I believe getting the 5 back will do more harm than good for TVXQ.

      Delete
  50. Thank you, Precious, for your answer.
    You expressed it precisely, "getting 5 again won't bring the old magic back".

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  51. I...can I just support both of them blindly?...coz I really love them to the level I really hate myself for loving them so much...Precious..I know getting 5 again wont bring the old magic back...but it is okay if they made a new magic when they are getting 5 again?

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  52. Personally, I don't know what to believe anymore. JYJ fans have to be really careful when they read articles that show a bad image of the 3, whether it is at a small or large scale because surely, we (JYJ fans) know that their current top-of-the-list enemy is S.M and vice-versa. And thus, S.M being the most distorted, influential and corrupted company I know, may have fed JYJ antis (or HoTels) of baseless rumors regarding the cosmetic company (JYJ too), according to the sources I have read. The facts written in the article posted here (truetvxq) may or may not be true, but I am aware that this blog is HoMin-biased (please don't misunderstand, I love HoMin too)but I'm not saying that this blog is anti-JYJ either. I'm only stating that people who really want to do some extra research and know all the facts should check out other sources as well.

    Either you find a blog that is 100% confirmed to be very very neutral to the subject, or you read from both HoMin and JYJ-biased blogs (what I'm currently doing), then maybe you'll understand why I'm at a lost.

    (how you interpret it after reading is entirely up to you): http://thejyjfiles.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/trans-warning-about-malicious-rumours-regarding-crebeau/

    ReplyDelete
  53. hey.. try reading this article ( http://thejyjfiles.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/trans-warning-about-malicious-rumours-regarding-crebeau/ ). It explains certain things about the business (pictures of them as all 5, for example). I also want to mention that the parents probably just want to help their children.. I know it seems like too much, like they are taking advantage of a lot of people, but maybe they aren't doing it in a malicious way.

    I also find you are very biased towards Homin (meaning you sound really quite against JYJ -- I support Homin wholeheartedly as well, don't get me wrong), so your info came across as really bad/maybe a little blown up (exaggerated). Maybe you could take into consideration that they (JYJ) simply invested in Crebeau, and don't make a lot in terms of decisions. Of course, they will promote their stores, but is that really so bad?

    HOWEVER I'm not saying that I don't agree with the whole using-innocent-fan's-money thing is wrong... I just think they didn't intend to do it in that way, more like they needed the money so they made an investment (I mean, think about the reason why they made the lawsuit: they were never payed (i think.. am i right?)) Also, Homin does the exact same thing: they take money from their innocent fans. They've (as well as DB5K) have always been plating the "if you buy enough during this limited time period, we will gift you with special merchandise!" card. How else would they survive?

    PS Sorry for the bad writing :P And great article, really! It's just a little too biased.

    PPS and please don't take mt comment negatively :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Maybe you could take into consideration that they (JYJ) simply invested in Crebeau, and don't make a lot in terms of decisions"

      If they simply "invested' they wouldn't have ended up with 62.5% of the shares, which technically makes them the CEO of the company.

      Delete
  54. @d3ath.th3.kid

    I agree with you. Article is a little "too biased".

    ----TO EVERYONE------
    I think that we will never really know the reason for the split, and as fans we should respect their decisions; though it hurts plenty of us. I've been a cassie since their debut, and I still support TVXQ the way it was, and the it is now. JYJ also has my support. Fans are supposed to stand by them, not make matters worse by dissing both parties (I've seen fans dissing homin and JYJ) But for what?
    We weren't there with them. And I don't think JYJ intended to hurt anyone. And why are people acting so innocent? Money does change people, so what? It's only a natural thing. I mean nobody can say it doesn't, unless you've experienced it. When Jaejoong started off, he didn't have much; he talked about living in a small room. Yoochun was poor, went to the U.S and just got worse. Yunho and Changmin; things weren't always easy for them. Money does change when you come from nothing to something.
    When they split, I seriously updated my itunes library and now instead of having DBSK (for five of them, to me)to TVXQ (for homin) because I can't call them DBSK, it's hard for me. Though people may be negative about the case that they don't truly know about, they can't ignore the fact that JYJ was a part of DBSK.
    And for those fans that were Jaejoong, Junsu, or Yoochun biased, and now they're not - they're not true fans.

    (My opinion, don't trash my thoughts or think of me badly)

    ReplyDelete
  55. @Yo vovel you don't think JYJ intend to hurt anyone?? really? give me one thing they did in this lawsuit that is not for their own sakes? i don't hate them for leaving but i despise them for not taking responsibility or owning up to the real reason they are leaving and just throw blames to just about anything or anyone but their own selves. they left yunho and changmin to pick up the pieces of what TVXQ were.

    i think everyone remembers that jyj WAS part of TVXQ BEFORE but i hope everyone will accept that yunho and changmin ARE TVXQ NOW.

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  56. ridiculous. Even I can't imagine that they can do such ridiculous things like this xD
    I have lost all my respect, my love for CJS. i have been your silent reader all this time. and I thought you were never open this blog anymore. but thanks for all your translations, you have open my closed eyes. thanks
    before, I was OT5. but now. no more. I'll continue to be a devoted Cassiopeia. Homin's eternal supporter.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The author seems done her job and gone 4ever, after " opens the closed eyes" of thousands people. Well, she indeed did a good job, but I'm sorry, I 'm more into music. I believe that the artists can't lie, just so you know,cause people can easily look into their heart and read their soul, it's just impossible for them to lie. I just listen to JYJ's music and I know I could entrust my love on them. So I suggest you listen to some of their songs like "W"."Fallen Leaves", "Song Without A Name" before passing your judgment

      Delete