But it still doesn't explain why SM did not want them to continue the business, and why the conflict started in the first place. Why would SM interfere with CJS's personal business?
Both sides agreed that SM initially approved CJS's involvement in the business as long as it was a simple investment, but as proven later by the Korean DA, CJS owned 62.5% share of the business, but the conflict began about a year before that fact was officially released, so there must have been other reasons for SM to oppose the business.
First I want to go over the interview with the president of Crebeau, Kang Seok Won that's posted on many blogs and fan sites. Here's the interview. If you've already read the interview, you can just skip it. I deleted the picture of Kang from the original doc.
=========================================================================
The cosmetic company that is being shown by SM Entertainment as the crux of the TVXQ dispute. To find out what exactly the relationship is between TVXQ and the cosmetic company, we met with Kang Seok Won, President of Crebeau, for an interview. President Kang Seok Won carefully picked his words and said, “More than 10 years of hard work to build this company are being rattled because of TVXQ’s small investment.”
Question&Answer
=Crebeau was created over 12 years ago. It has been over ten years since we began using sheep placenta as a main ingredient in the cosmetics. This can be easily verified in our homepage or on our certificate of authentication. We have over 100 stores in Korea alone. We are also a company that has spread to China and Japan. TVXQ’s Xiah Junsu, Micky Yoochun and YoungWoong Jaejoong made only small investments in our company.
▲What kind of company is the Beijing Representation Corporation that sued the three members of TVXQ?
=The Beijing Representation Corporation is the company who is in charge of all the Crebeau stores in the Shanghai region in China. We currently have three chain stores open in Shanghai as of now. We met for the first time at the Company Presentation that was held in China in January of this year and signed a contract together. This company opened these three stores in July and officially began their business. As soon as they opened, complications arose. (President Kang showed Sports Seoul the contract between Crebeau and Beijing Representation Corporation) Beijing Representation Corporation were not adhering to the clauses in teh contract and were using TVXQ to advertise their products. They irrationally held advertising events, and when we intercepted their actions, they decided to file the lawsuit.
▲If the three members of TVXQ only hold small investments, why where they sued?
=The three members attended the Investment Presentation we held in Shanghai in January. After listening to the Investment Presentation, the three completed their investments in March/April. The Beijing Representation Corporation interpreted ‘The TVXQ Three members have invested’ as ‘The TVXQ Three members are now ambassador’s to Crebeau.’ Therefore, the company tried to use TVXQ to advertise products but as soon as we heard of this and intercepted their actions, they retaliated. (Holding the contract)In the contract, not even the ‘T’ of TVXQ is mentioned. The three members of TVXQ represent SM Entertainment, not Crebeau. The side that violated the contract is in fact Beijing Representation Corporation, not the three members.
▲Do you have proof that Beijing Representation Corporation violated the contract?
=On October 2nd, when the TVXQ Shanghai concert was coming up, they sold cosmetics tied with tickets for the concert. We have even collected evidence of this. They opened a store that did not follow our standards, and illegally sold cosmetics at discounted prices near the concert location. These are all violations of the contract. The main office located in Korea told Beijing Representation Corporation to ask for all of the cosmetics sold along with tickets to be returned so that the company’s image would not be tarnished. 70 million Won worth of damages were incurred but the main office compensated for all of these losses.
▲When you say a ‘small investment’ by the three members of TVXQ. How small is their investment?
=The three members invested less than 100 million Won each in the Chinese branch of our company. Crebeau itself invested more than 3 billion Won for the Chinese expansion. The three members’ investments combined are only worth around 300 million Won. It is only around 1/10 of all of the investments. Xiah Junsu’s father also showed interest in investing. We gave him the right a chain store outside of Seoul. All the investment money related to TVXQ does not amount to much.
▲How are you planning to deal with Beijing Representation Corporation?
=We are going through the appropriate steps with a lawyer from China. They are at an advantage as this is a case that will be dealt with using the laws of China. That is why Beijing Representation Corporation did not sue the Chinese office of Crebeau either. If there was a problem with the company as a whole, why did they just sue the Korean main office? This is their blind spot. I believe that the truth will always win.
▲SM Entertainment is blaming the cosmetic company for the TVXQ dispute.
=We find it quite absurd that we are being blamed for the dispute between TVXQ and SM Entertainment. Many people were witness to TVXQ’s Xiah Junsu receiving permission from SM to invest in the company. All the procedures we had to go through were legally correct and there were no problems. SM Entertainment blamed us only after the dispute occurred between the agency and members of TVXQ. Because of SM, our work has been disrupted and our image has been tarnished.
▲How do you plan on solving the issue regarding SM?
=This is a problem that has nothing to do with the three members of TVXQ. It is a problem between two companies. SM Entertainment used Crebeau as a scapegoat and tarnished our image to put the blame of the TVXQ dispute on us. The Chinese and Japanese plans we have been making have been rattled because of SM’s claims. The main office of Crebeau in Korea, as well as our offices in China and Japan are planning to get together and file a large-scale lawsuit against SM. We will receive an appropriate apology for our tarnished image and disrupted work.
source: [sports seoul+DNBN]
translation credits: jeeelim5@tohosomnia.net
shared by: tohosomnia.net
Do not remove/add on any credits
translation credits: jeeelim5@tohosomnia.net
shared by: tohosomnia.net
Do not remove/add on any credits
=========================================================================
The above interview is all over the JYJ biased sites, and somehow the fans think it proves CJS is not involved with Crebeau and proves SM is just using the cosmetics business as a scapegoat, which is quite amusing. Some fans trust an interview from a businessman who's only connected with CJS through business ($$$), but choose to ignore HoMin and their parents, who are directly involved with TVXQ, as if their signed statements meant nothing.
The above interview was released on September of 2009 in Korea, before the DA's investigation was released, so there are many lies in that interview. Most obvious lie is about CJS's investment. Kang claims CJS only invested 1/10 of the total investment, but since CJS owns 62.5% of the company, that claim is either a flat out lie, or CJS's families invested the rest. Either way, it wasn't a small investment as SM was told, and both Kang and CJS lied about it.
Last two questions from the interview talk about SM, how they plan to sue SM to get apology, and we all know how that lawsuit turned out. SM was absolved from all charges by the Korean DA, and the roles are reversed now, SM filed a lawsuit against Crebeau which is still pending.
If you haven't read my post regarding the lawsuit yet, here's the link: http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2011/01/cosmetics-companys-lawsuit-against-sm.html
I posted the interview because it does explain some reasons why SM was against the business, so let's begin.
First, let's talk about the product itself.
Kang states that the main ingredient of their product is sheep's placenta. Some fans defending the ingredient claim that the company may be getting the placenta after the sheep has given birth, but they kill lamb/sheep that's 3 months pregnant because that is when the placenta is high in nutrients. I'm not an animal cruelty activist, but that just sounds wrong. I'm getting sick just typing about it. That info used to be on the company's website just a month ago, but they must've changed the main ingredient because it only lists 'pearl' as the ingredient now, but if you search 'Crebeau Placenta' you can still find the products selling on the web, and you can find many references to the ingredients. Actually, when you search 'TVXQ placenta', the products still pop up along with related articles. As a fan, do you really want TVXQ's name associated with products named 'Placenta' and 'Embryo'?
Here's a place I found that sells the product, and it explains the ingredients in detail. Read what it says about the product. The site is in Japanese, and it looks like they're mail order site that sells health foods and other stuff, and I put the link in the google translator.
Do the products look suspect like HoMin's father said in the statements?
Here's another site that's selling Crebeau products.
http://www.shoppingmalldvd.com/product_490106_en Look how expensive the products are and the usage of "Dong Bang Shin Ki" on every item. I highly doubt they can charge that much money with just "Crebeau" name alone.
Kang also talks about the lawsuit between a Chinese company and Crebeau, and claims that the Chinese company promoted the products using TVXQ on its own. Translate these Chinese articles with google translator. The articles talk about 'TVXQ' member CJS's Crebeau promotion in Shanghai. The articles even mention Junsu's father and his twin brother's involvement in the business.
I don't know how many of the readers saw this video, but here's JaeJoong speaking at the Crebeau presentation in Shanghai in January 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHBSOomdSQ
He's promoting the cosmetics product in person, yet he's just a small investor. Kang claimed in another interview that CJS happened to be at the product launch by chance while traveling China (CJS told SM they're taking a vacation). It's actually more surprising that there are people who really believe that claim. Anyways, he's promoting the Crebeau products, and says he has interest in caring his skin and used the product. Then he makes the famous quote: "After using (the product), your body will exude beauty (then everyone laughs)". Korean fans call that clip the "Body exuding beauty" video.
With these previous promotional activities, I don't know how the Chinese company can be blamed for using TVXQ for the promotion and the subsequent lawsuit. (covered in my previous post)
http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2011/01/did-chinese-court-rule-cjs-is-not.html
This post is getting pretty long so I am going to make another post in a day or two with more info about the cosmetics business and its problems.
I really don't want TVXQ to be associated with that sheep placenta thingy. And you're right, it's funny to believe that they just accidentally came to China right on time to promote Crebeau's products.
ReplyDeleteThanks for today's article. I'm looking forward to more coming.
@ pumpkiepie
ReplyDeleteI don't want TVXQ to associated with THAT either T.T
@ Precious
Thank you for the information, I didn't bother searching for the connection between CreBeau's product and TVXQ until you point it out (I wonder why I didn't >.<). And damn, those products are ridiculously EXPENSIVE O.O, and here I still hesitate to buy Olay's active hydrating and Aveeno's facial moisturizer (which each last half a year for me since I too lazy to use everyday >.<) and it only cost $15-20 (which I think is reasonable price). I love those two brands a lot, but even than I still a little hesitate to buy it, let alone $100-$300+ for THAT? HHAHAHA not in a million years I'm spending that much for that.
And I believe they blaming Chinese company for the sake of blaming someone (to take responsible for it)... and since it in China, leave it to the Chinese company to handle it... maybe?
The animal activist inside me came out. I seriously thought that they were using the ones from when the sheep gave birth >.<. But, for "animal-lovers" like CJS to invest in a company with such cruel methods was a serious let down.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, on to the lawsuit, fans usually cite how Junsu was given permission to invest as the counter-attack to the whole Crebeau factor. I suppose if only one member was to be used for promotions and all, it wouldn't be a problem since it would be like one against five. But granted that three of them invested, it is much easier to drag the whole TVXQ to the advertising, promotions and other repercussions of joining the business. I would understand how SM would not like the idea especially since its such a shady business and its not like only the three members would only be affected if things fall apart.
Point is, when the three of them joined the business they brought the whole TVXQ factor with them. Its one thing to be selling and investing, since its something that other stars do as well. But as shown in the video and product titles, they included TVXQ in the promotions. And its a clear exploitation of the popularity of TVXQ.
I agree with Hotaru and pumpkiepie. I dont want tvxq gets associated w/ tht kind of company and products.
ReplyDeleteI ve been a regular wwf supporter, animals always be my concerns & killin sheep which is 3 months pregnant is not just rite!! It makes me angry really >:(
and they still use name dbsk for selling products, which upset me. FACT: dbsk is now yunho & changmin. they have nothing to do w/ those products. so they need to remove dbsk name instead and change it to somethin' else...
And tht price is freakin' ridiculous! I'd prefer to buy well-known brand thn those or maybe SMT ticket... :P
agree w/ precious. its freakin' sadden me tht some fans are blind enough to believe some random guy rather than homin and their parents who know the truth all along. well i dont ask them to fully believe, just dont lambast & be disrespectful towards them.
All statements by Mr.Kang just crumbles one by one. I wonder wht will they do now...
cant wait for ur other post precious ^^
And they still have the audacity to bash homin for not leaving with their oppas?...can't believe it!
ReplyDelete@ayoepan I agree. Yunho & Changmin are now DBSK so that company needs to stop selling those products with their name!
My thoughts...
1. I have nothing against stars selling products, heck singers and actors do it all the time here in the states! 2. I'm sure that our ancestors also did weird stuff to enhance beauty, so sheep placenta doesn't scare me...but killing the animals at three month pregnancy? Hmm...that really looks like animal cruelty but I'm willing to let that one go. 3. What I DON'T get, is why the President of Crebeau says that JYJ are merely small investors when is a known fact that THEY OWN 62.5 OF THE COMPANY!
4. If Crebeau is such a success as he says, then why is he using TVXQ brand to sell products? Besides, it's only THREE members NOT all five of them! Yunho and Changmin were NOT involved in the investment so Crebeau had no right to use the name. Why not use JYJ's names?
5. It's good to invest and take risk but at the cost of what? Tarnishing TVXQ name, specially when Homin had nothing to do with it?
6. Why lie and say the lawsuit is only a/b money issues, when it's clear the cosmetic business has a lot to do with it? Why let Homin get all the hate? *sighs disappointed*
@precious thanks for the translations, you have no idea how much I appreciate it :-) Everything is becoming clearer and honestly the truth was bound to come out eventually...
not a big animal activist here, but making money out of killed 3-months-pregnant sheeps? wow... no wonder sme's so against this thing, the reasons are just keep piling up. 3 members = more than half = pretty much /almost/ the whole band. it might be fine if only 1 or 2, but 3 would definitely make people think the whole group is involved. also the fact that they actually have the biggest share in the company? gosh. i wonder what lie they would give out next.
ReplyDelete..btw, i have a question, does crebeau really put TVXQ! in their products? or is it just simply the ~artist names~ sellers are slapping on the product's page / their websites so it would gain people's attention?
the truth is being discovered, slowly but sure. and i can't wait.
thanks for the article! :D
so basically that Crebeau director acknowledge of its brand in China using TVXQ's name for promotion and still declined the claim from SM ... did he lack of common sense or something???
ReplyDeletewow i never do research about Crebeau but wth with a cosmetic company using Sheep's placenta for its products? Nowday we don't even have the right to test on animal not to mention using animal as an ingredient. It's GREEN generation now ... I can see how it affect TVXQ's image ... And did JYJ do some research about the company and its so famous ingredient before invest??? I mean how could u invest in a company like that????
lol i hear dnbn finally showed their true color and no longer even put up a pretense of supporting all 5. good riddance! i was fed up w/ the fake-a$$ "love" they were showing homin.
ReplyDeletewhatevs, i'm more interested in seeing how the previously yunjae sites position themselves after closing & revamping themselves to support TVXQ =).
ackk this whole crebeau stuff leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. i remember when the business' connection w/ the three members i was patting myself on the back for being biased towards the..members with the higher IQ lol.
@ S
ReplyDeleteDNBN was never supporting all 5, they only pretended to be. They never had any problem with JYJ's album, but started a boycott for TVXQ album just because HoMin used TVXQ name? Totally absurd. I will post about DNBN, how that site turned into JYJ site pretty soon.
@ jaegiya
ReplyDeleteCrebeau didn't put TVXQ name directly in their products. They are not that dumb. :) But the way they're promoting their products, there's no way for anyone to miss that the products are related to TVXQ.
@ kendalove
As major shareholders of the company, I'm fairly certain they knew about the product. You simply don't get involved in a company that much without those information.
@ Jennystar19
62.5% was not known at the time of the interview. Of course Kang himself knew it, but he had to lie about it to cover up for CJS and his business. Too bad his lawsuit totally backfired against him. I still laugh at that lawsuit for how it turned out. LOL
Why lie about it? I'll get to that soon.
@ to all
There's more to come. :)
@ Hotaru
ReplyDeleteOlay & Aveeno hahahaha that was fuuny. LOL
Precious, thanks for this entry.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't really sure how to take this post. Sometimes, I feel like this must be one big joke. Surely, the three had more sense than to throw away 6+ years of hard work and friendship based on some get rich quick scheme in sheep placenta, of all things...right? I mean, did they get advanced millions of dollars? That would at least explain (tho not excuse) why they threw away the two so easily. I can't seem to formulate any coherent thought on this right now except how ridiculous it all seems. Sigh.
As always, looking forward to your next post.
@ catherine
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is ridiculous, and I know it's really hard to accept it. I've read many fanaccounts about how hard it was for some fans to see what really happened, and how hard it was for them to accept the truth. It took some fans months to finally accept the reality and give up CJS even after finding out what happened.
precious, thanks for this post. I've followed your blog frequently and always check out the comment part... hehe >_<
ReplyDeleteabout this entry, wow seriously I don't want DBSK name related to "PLACENTA"(?) no wonder SME didn't approve this sort of investment. it's tarnish the DBSK name. and so much like the other side disagree when Homin using DBSK name to promote again, didnt they realize JYJ using DBSK name to promote this product without even the approve of the other 2 members? so irony... hmm... thanks again precious.
oh I remember that you said you going to cover about the Japanese fans that keep on supporting DBSK with 2 members. I'm just curious cause yesterday I was watching SM Town Japan concert fancam and saw the fans cried when Homin sang "How Can I". It just show how deep their support towards the boys and most of the stadium is filled with BigEast. ^^
@ NURAMIRAH LIYANA ROSLAN
ReplyDeleteDid I say I was going to cover about Japanese fans? Anyways, did you see the fancam from outside the stadium? It must've been pretty cold, but fans stayed to listen to the performance from outside. :)
It seems like majority of Japanese fans support either all 5 or HoMin's TVXQ, but not JYJ.
@ NURAMIRAH LIYANA ROSLAN
ReplyDeleteBTW, I don't think CJS using TVXQ to promote their business is same as HoMin using TVXQ at all. In HoMin's case, CJS got out of SM, so they didn't have any choice but to continue as TVXQ with just them, especially when this whole crisis was caused by CJS.
as always, thank you for this post! you really know how to keep us in suspense LOL. anyways, i totally get why sm wouldn't want to associate TVXQ with this kind of business. they're using placenta. its kind of gross. but you said there's more? oh boy. what else is there? and i agree from the comments above, this is kind of hard to digest. its so surreal.
ReplyDeleteand the DNBN fansite. i think they're just using sm as an alibi but in fact, they don't support homin because JYJ isn't with them. talk about double standard.
lastly, what do you mean Japanese fans support all 5 of them but not JYJ? i don't get it. if its TVXQ5 they will support them but if its only JYJ they won't?
@cinderellaboy10
ReplyDeleteI think it's not they won't support, but I guess from the type of japanese fans I know, whether they're Homin supporters or JYJ supporters, they pretty calm about it.(Compared to Korea or international fans)
As far as I know there's no such thing as famous fansites control/influence fandoms opinion in J-music fandom,they're pretty individual, so whether they dominantly support JYJ/Homin is hard to detect.
But for me it's enough that they support TVXQ as it is now :) and I think they're not supposed to lose trust in Avex that easily since they've known Avex and its artist far before they knew Tohoshinki ^^
@precious
The thing about placenta is just... Damn. :( I'm an animal lover. :(
@lapis.lazuli
ReplyDeleteoh thank you! yeah i'm happy too that Japanese fans are welcoming them with arms wide open. oh and on a good note, TVXQ got no 1 and 3 on hanteo while jyj got no. 5. i feel like a monster cause i'm happy that they beat(?) jyj. :|. it's just that a lot of people were underestimating homin and now they're finally on top so its like, in your face! LOL. okay sorry for rambling.
thanks for the clarification! :)
@cinderellaboy10
ReplyDeleteI'm happy to hear that too^^
If you're a monster, I'll be one too :D
@ cinderellaboy10
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant was that majority of Japanese fans know what really happened with TVXQ, so they'd either support current TVXQ or old TVXQ as 5, but not JYJ by themselves. So JYJ supporters are relatively low compared to Korea or other countries.
TVXQ's new Japanese single Why (Keep your head down) sold over 190,000 in 3 days, so this just shows how much support TVXQ is getting in Japan. They just made an appearance on Music Station, so that should further boost the sales. They've been number 1 on Oricon Chart for the last 3 days.
@Precious
ReplyDeleteReally? How do you know this?
If that's true, I wonder if that has something to do with that clash with Avex...
I mean, Avex is a company with good credibility in Japan, they never had a scandal/issues with its artists, and Avex artists are those that's quite respected. If I were a Japanese I wouldnt just believe foreigners instead of people from my own country.
or is it because music with english-language is just not that popular in Japan? ^^
@precious
ReplyDeletethanks for the explanation, i need to make sure, because your explanation in the article sounds like the company are the one doing so, and i really don't want antis to use that against you by saying that your article was based by mere online shops which has nothing to do with the company. D:
and lol about dnbn turning jyj. i'm sure most of us had already predicted they'd come to this decision. a bit disappointing though since there's still a chance that they might only be anti-sme who drag homin in the mess along with everything-sme (remember the boycotting thing?) but yeah, they should learn to hate the game, not the player.
@ lapis.lazuli: I'm stalking some japanese website recently. From what I learn they also did research about the case itself. They did the same thing like Precious did. They collect 'neutral' news and facts tht they can found. In the end they understand what happens in the lawsuit. Unlike international fans, japanese fans has advantage in accessing the source informations (dont ask me how though :P). And many japanese can understand korean and korean understand japanese (compare to english), therefore they can switch info easily. Plus, the news they get seems still intact with the original news. Less distortion. As well for international fans, we heavily depend on A***pop and fansite translators. I dont mean to be rude and disrespectful. I never intend to, but as we know most of them has formed a biased. Even some of them took the news from DNBN. We've already known DNBN is a super biased fansite. How can we rely a line of fact from them ?
ReplyDeleteActually I applause Japanese fans for their intelligence and ability in screening the news. Furthermore, they can form their own opinions without being swayed by 'kcassies'. They're truly fans :)
Sorry if I make mistake. Its based on my observations, so I may make mistakes :)
@ lapis.lazuli
ReplyDeleteFrom my limited knowledge of Japanse fans that's what it seems like, but I can't be 100% sure. I wonder if there's a Japanese fan visiting my blog who can verify it. Avex thing definitely had an effect, especially the reason why they dropped CJS, C-Jes's connection with Korean gangs. Many Japanese fans know about 6.25 voice file as well. I'll be posting about both in the future. :)
@ jaegiya
The cosmetics company WAS doing it, but just not directly. TVXQ fans were really happy that DNBN finally came out showing its true colors. The boycott just didn't make sense. On the surface they are against SM, but by boycotting the album, who gets hurt the most? Just ridiculous.
cool, you going to talk about 6.25 thingy. Been curious about it after reading few posts with "6.25" but have no idea what it meant/do. Ahhh... all this suspense is killing me... been checking this blog everyday, at least 10 times a days just to see if it update (and read people posts) :)
ReplyDeletehaha yeah i have no idea what happened with 6.25 either and im dying to find out, just like hotaru.
ReplyDeleteit does seem like homin has the majority of the bigeast's support, seeing how they sold phenomenally for why and jyj didn't do well in japan i think?
@Precious
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether I've written this or not here before,but I believe the boycott is pretty useless&stupid. I mean those who'll 'gladly' do the boycott must be Homin/2TVXQ antis, right? Even without the label boycott, they wouldn't buy the album anyway, so what's the difference?
I think they're just using the chance to make themselves look like 'we're defending the human rights' while they only simply not buying like the other non-fans xD
I'm more concern to those who whore here and there about supporting Homin and download their stuffs but not buying/legally download the songs xD
@ayoepan
Wow... I love fans who aren't easily swayed and could form their own opinion xD but then I'm really curious to that 625 recording, bec I've only read the summarized version by dnbn, and it seemed like Homin were the bad guys there
@lapis.lazuli:
ReplyDeletewell maybe not all fans, since I stalk only couple few sites XDD. But all sites tht I stalk support whteher TVXQ(Homin) or TVXQ5. I havent found only JYJ sites. Maybe Im not observant enough XDD and they are the calmest fans I ve encountered XDD (compare to int.fans and Kcassies).
I ve read and heard 625 meeting. I actually read from both sides. From pro Homin pov (tvxq homin dc) and JYJ pov (translation from peoplez). And u can tell how different they are... So I'm curious what precious's view abt 625 meeting ^^
Cant wait ^^
Can someone explain to me what happen in DNBN pls, i know they're bias against Homin but is there an official statement about it????
ReplyDeletecould i petition (weakly coz i enjoy your posts immensely anyway) that you move up the post about 6.25. i have heard nothing about it (was occupied otherwise during that period...) but it sounds like its an important piece of evidence? sooo curious haha. or at least give us clueless ones a little taste of it here in the comments.
ReplyDeletethank yoU!
I found this site several days ago but dismissed it as an another biased explaining, only this time biased towards and not against Homin.
ReplyDeleteToday I stumbled upon it once more and actually took my time to read some posts (most of them, even, I suppose). While I still wouldn't like to jump to any conclusions (it's been done way too many times in this whole giantic mess), I must say that I'm really grateful for an additional point of view that you're offering here and for all that work you're putting into translating all those documents and sharing it with all of us that don't know Korean. That's one of the most frustrating aspect of being in fandom which language you don't understand, I guess - being able to rely only on whatever (usually distorted) pieces and scraps you can find translated.
I find all of this really fascinating and I hope you can continue with your hard work :)
And I'm also really curious about 6.25 meeting. I've read a translation but it was so confusing and badly worded and biased that it was hard to treat it seriously. I remember really regretting that there wasn't any better translation even after such long time. I'll be looking forward to your take on it.
And offtopic - I was wondering who's your bias between Yunho and Changmin? (Supposing you have one but I think it's quite probable assumption because really, who doesn't XD)
Also, I couldn't comment no matter how hard I tried - I don't what was at fault but neither Open ID or the livejournal option worked. I don't know, maybe it's a problem with my PC/Internet but maybe it's worth looking into?
(So finally I made this blog specifically to comment here XD)
@ kenda
ReplyDeleteIt a nutshell, DNBN officially announced that they will not support TVXQ with HoMin any more which is laughable because they never did after the split.
@ Sessho
Nice to know that my posts helped. Thank you for reading them. :)
I don't have any particular bias towards either of them. I like them both, and in my opinion, they complement each other very well. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. I guess that's just how I am because I'm like that with other groups I like. I don't really get deeply attached to the members, and that's probably why.
@ to all
I'm almost done with the cosmetics company, and 6.25 will be next. It's coming. :)
I don't know what to think anymore!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm confused now!!!
Doesn't make any sense they risk everything because of a cosmetic company...
Hangeng sued SM , and didn't has any involvement with any business. So SM really have a unfair contract, no?
I didn't know japanese fans only support Homin or TVXQ5.
So... the rumor I heard was true??
I heard from my sister's friend that one kcassie said to her that they discovered that YunHo's father published a book slandering JYJ in Japan... and even he had a false nickname and was spreading false rumors about JYJ(including this 6.25 meeting)....what you guys know about it??
Why so much hate towards YunHo's father?
they said that yunho's father lied about his profession... He's not a lawyer, but a teacher of nursing...
sorry for my bad english ^/////^
@ MJ87
ReplyDeleteHi. Take your time and just look at the facts. If you have an open mind and recall what happened so far and put the pieces of puzzle yourself with only the facts, you'll realize what happened.
About the claim that Yunho's father wrote a book, that's a total lie. A Japanese writer who owns a blog published a book, and he quoted a letter from Yunho's father in his book. I can even explain how that letter got to him, but that's going to be too long to write here. Yunho's father never claimed he was a lawyer. I believe he owns a school that trains nurses, and it's his family members who work in law related field, but I don't know exactly what.
@ MJ87
ReplyDeleteHangeng's contract was different than TVXQ's, so we cannot conclude what's going to happen in TVXQ's lawsuit. Even if is later ruled unfair, the profit distribution is definitely fair. Also, the judge in Hangeng's case stated that the 13-year period itself cannot determine fairness of the contract. There are other circumstances to consider, so I don't know what the result of the lawsuit is going to be. There are just too many factors to consider. Even the judge himself could be a factor.
As for Yunho's father's law experience, I just looked into it, and he did graduate a law school, but worked in finance field. He also managed the nursing school, and it's his brother who's a lawyer.
Thanks Precious, I love what you are doing here!
ReplyDeleteI also refresh the page every 10 minutes to see if any new posts are up or to read the comments... Ahh what a mess this whole thing is!! Can't wait for more.
Woah! I had already heard about the 6.25 gathering and watched a clip about it. First, I doubt the translation so I don't know what to believe then. I'm glad your're going to talk about it but i also heard that there is also another one. It's 6.21 gathering and I don't know about it so pls. If you have a time pls. tackle about it also because I have no idea what is all about. Thanks for another post. It's a good thing to find another side of the issue and because of language barriers many people don't get the whole situation right. I had already accepted the fact that JYJ are like that but i don't care since I only love their music in the first place. Thanks for the hard work again!!!! (^.^)
ReplyDeletei can't wait for 6.25 story..because i'm curious,i'll try to google it and came across this site:
ReplyDeletehttp://bbs3.telzone.daum.net/gaia/do/starzone/detail/read?articleId=7607760&objCate1=6&bbsId=S000001&searchKey=subjectNcontent&sortKey=depth&searchValue=625+%EC%98%81%EC%96%B4%EB%B2%84%EC%A0%84&forceTalkro=T&pageIndex=1
after reading this,i really is 1000x curious about this gathering..hope you will post soon to put my heart at ease..i do not want to trust the site 100% yet..huhu...
@ all
ReplyDeleteYes, everything will be covered. It's going to take a bit of time to post about 6.25, but I'll post it sometime next week.
@ Sunshine Dreamer
Now it's 6.21? LOL They can't even agree on the date. First it was 6.23, then it's 6.24, now it's 6.21? 6.25 never changed, but the other meeting that's supposedly happened keeps changing the date and no one has any clue what it was about. Anyways, that will also be covered when I talk about 6.25.
I feel kinda ill. Placenta?? I mean, not just placenta cuz that sounds gross in itself, but placenta taken at 3mo. pregnancy? Even if they somehow extract it without killing the mother, it has to be harmful to her since a sheep's full pregnancy term is just under 5mo., and they most definitely have to kill the fetus.. which at 3mo. would be mostly developed...ugh. I'm not even all gungho about animal rights, but that's just horrible. I know Korea has very loose animal rights laws in comparison to the U.S. and many other Western countries, so I suppose general public opinion on that kind of thing in Korea probably differs a lot too. But. Ugh, how can anyone not see it's shady? I've been trying to give JCS the benefit of the doubt for a long time but everything about the whole Crebeau situation just sounds like turning a blind eye for the sake of a profitable investment. Ironic that their lawsuit against SM is basically an accusation of SM employing shady business practices. Pot, meet kettle.
ReplyDeleteAbout 625 and DNBN - I came across a DNBN announcement from a year ago that stated all the original admins/staff of the site "voluntarily quit" and handed off the entire site to new admins/staff in August 2009. < http://dbskkingdom.blogspot.com/2010/01/info-100118-announcement-from-dnbn.html >. And I've heard a bit about the old DNBN admin and their actions around 625 as well. Precious, I know you're going to be posting about all of that so I'll just wait for those, but can I speculate that the whole site turnover is when DNBN became JCS-biased?
About Hangeng's lawsuit - one of the first things that struck me as drastically different about his case vs. JCS' case is that Hangeng is a Chinese citizen. I don't know much about his case, but I do know that things get a helluva lot more dicey when a citizen of one country files a legal suit against a party of another country, particularly taking into account the countries' relations with each other. And Korea-China relations have been "complicated" to say the least for literally thousands of years. I'm oversimplifying it and there's definitely a lot more to Hangeng's case than that, but I've always thought Hangeng's citizenship had some significance in the way the lawsuit was carried out. Have no idea how huge or small, but I don't think it's a factor that can be ignored/dismissed as wholly insignificant to the process/outcome. Any thoughts on that?
@ biathanatos
ReplyDeleteyeah, I read about DNBN announcement too... base on the link buba posted above, the former DNBN administrations was impeached, and all the boycott and rumors or whatever CJS support event and attacking HoMin all start AFTER the new administration members took over and move to different site. I don't know Korean and the google translation is terrible so I don't understand too well what they said or their stand on the whole thing on the original site.
@Bubba
thank for the link, I read it, and I hope that it not totally like that or else >.< ... because I was really mad when I read it. Though from what I can see/feel, the arguments they present seem fit with what we learn here (I wish I did not read that, doesn't matter if it true or not >.<, if it true then I don't know what to say or think). But I'll wait for Precious's post and opinion regarding that meeting.
@ Percious
Can't wait for your second part of cosmetic post and 6.25 meeting :)
@bubba
ReplyDelete@hotaru
I think I've read that link a while ago... Still, what I was thinking is 'why the hell kpop fandom's opinions were directed by fansites admins', and why the hell JYJ were so afraid to lose their fans that they held such secret meeting?
If they want to clear up
issues, better held a press conference or wrote a statement to media rather than held a meeting in a church with the heads of their fansites... -_-;; is that usual in kpop?
About the killing of the sheeps when it's 3 mths pregnant and the 67.5% shares, are there any evidences and sources?
ReplyDelete@ biathanatos
ReplyDeleteAfter I finish my posts regarding 6.25, everything will be cleared up, including DNBN situation. As for Hangeng's case, him being a Chinese citizen may had some effect with his trial, but there's no way for me to know what actually happened. There wasn't even a court transcript available for his case.
@ miko
ReplyDeleteThe evidences are all presented in my posts as links. BTW, it's 62.5%.
62.5%
http://truetvxq.blogspot.com/2011/01/cosmetics-companys-lawsuit-against-sm.html
The two newest posts I made talk about the 3 month pregnant lambs and links to the sites.
@ lapis.lazuli
ReplyDeleteI don't know Kpop that well since I only follow them because of DBSK (and that only 2 years ago)... I THINK (ASSUMING HERE)fansite admins usually invited to press confront because they can't afford to have too many people (fan) in one place (think of all the chaos it cause), therefore the admins usually there to record, ask questions, and ect and then report back to the fan through their site - this is why their opinion is VERY important. I'm using the knowledge I know based only on 2PM case that is why I'm not totally correct. But (to me) secret meeting seem shady and underhand >.<.
Now looking at 6.25 meeting, if the content is true in that site, then they probably doesn't want to do it in the open for everyone to aware that the meeting is held or the content of the meeting, for the information they giving is lie (based on the translation from that site) and transfer all the blame on HoMin for breaking the group and said the cosmetic is not the reason (that we know from here that the cosmetic is part of the reason). IF I'm going to lies/bad-mouthing my friends...I personally would want the public to know either... This new information hurt my head @.@...
But overall, I don't know much about the meeting beside what the website said, that is why I'll wait for Precious's post and comment regard the meeting. I don't want to come to conclusion yet, so keep the 6.25 thing open for now. :)
@Precious
ReplyDeleteis what claimed here true?
http://hopeforjyj.wordpress.com/category/jyj/
trying to listen to both sides.. nothing bad can come out of that.
@ Maddie
ReplyDeleteI know all about that post. If you read it carefully, it doesn't really say anything about the 6.25 meeting, but just claims that voice file means nothing, and that's it. None of the claims in that post presents any solid evidences. The contents of that thread was actually created by jyj fans in Korea and spread to counter 6.25. I'll just point to one thing that we know is false. The post claims that 13 year contract term is an insider information, but all the fans knew about it because of the statements parents released during the rotation crisis. I could counter everything that's said in that post, but I'll do that later.
Hi, Precious
ReplyDeleteThank you for your hard work!! I’m Japanese living in Japan. So, the information in this blog is not new to me, but really helps me get my thoughts sorted out.
I read contracts and statements etc. in Japanese and Korean to ensure the Japanese translations reflect the original documents accurately. They seem to be the same, but I was not sure because my Korean is not that good. But now I know the Japanese translations are accurate, because Japanese translations and your English translations are consistent. That also means your translations are accurate, right? Thank you so much, Precious!
I bet what MJ87 wrote is one of rumours JYJ fans are trying to spread.
It’s really funny. It is part of JYJ fans who are trying to spread false rumours to diminish HoMin’s fame in Japan (I feel their purpose is not to justify their boys anymore). I sometimes see false negative rumours about HoMin, while I only see false POSITIVE rumours about JYJ.
Fortunately, such attempts seem to have failed so far. It may be because the rumours about HoMin are always unrealistic and unsupported by evidence or even contradicted by evidence, or they are obviously written by non-Japanese, or Japanese fans active online are already familiar with the evidence-based truth.
BTW, I have the book you mentioned. In this book, Yunho’s father said ‘Different people have different values. You cannot say which is right and which is wrong. It is just Yunho’s and my opinion that you should honour the contract once you signed unless there is a major breach’.
About Japanese fans, in my opinion, majority of Japanese fans are not active online, and don’t know what’s going on. They get most of their information from TV, which offers only superficial (or opportunistic?) information. They believe the lawsuit was caused by their parents (not CJS’s will) and the 5 boys are still in good relationship. Such fans seem to genuinely hope 5 reunite as one again soon and support both HonMin’s TVXQ and JYJ.
As Precious said, majority of Japanese fans active online seem to know what really happened with TVXQ and support all 5 or TVXQ with HoMin. And, now fan boys are increasing, saying the new TVXQ is cool.:)
@ Lisalio
ReplyDeleteNice to have a Japanese fan on my blog verifying my post. Thank you.
I've posted some Japanese people's response to CJS's business practice in Japan in my latest post, is it possible for you to verify them if you can? My translation is from the Korean translation of Japanese, and I didn't spend too much time with it. TIA
Yup, even in Korea, most men know what happened because they can look at this whole situation objectively because they weren't originally fans, so they know HoMin acted like a.... "MAN" LOL. I think the new TVXQ will gain many male fans both in Korea and Japan. :)
@ Lisalio
ReplyDeleteYAY! a Japanese fan living in Japan. こんにちは. welcome to this blog (even though this is not my blog LOLS). Japanese language is really hard,. I took 2nd year of Japanese, but my head already about to explode at the end of 2nd year LOLS. I'm glad you able to verifying the situation in japan with us. I hope you can share some knowledge you know with us :) more male-fans lols no problem ^.^v
@Precious
ReplyDeleteSure, I will!
@Hotaru
こんにちは~
Oh, you have studied Japanese. That’s why your HN is Japanese word.^^
I’m glad to have joined!
Even if JYJ own 62.5% of Crebeau they can't be shareholders because 62.5% divided by the 3 of them = 12.5% and then you also have to take into account the fact that their families also invested (according to what you wrote). It's not as if each each one of the JYJ's member owned 62.5% of Crebeau. Their investment is divided between the 3 (JYJ) + Junsu's father[?], Junsu's brother[?], Yoochun's mother[?] and Jaejoong's sister(s)[?].
ReplyDeleteI want to say that I'm not anti HoMin and I think I read almost, if not all, the articles of your blog as well as articles from a lot of other websites more or less biased (homin biased or jyj biased or "neutral") and it helped me to form my own opinion on the matter. I still don't think Crebeau was the main reason for JYJ to fill the lawsuit even if it might have influenced their decision but blaming everything on JYJ and the cosmetic business is as biased and naïve as blaming everything on SM and HoMin.
I also asked for my brother's help since he is a law student (this year is his last year) and he read the english translation you published on your blog and even if he agreed that this is not a slave contract (on that point I agree with you that calling it a "slave contract" is exagerated and harsh but the ones who use this words the most are actually the medias and the fans) he concluded that the contract was indeed far from being fair and was very one-sided, mostly protecting SM's interests and neglecting JYJ's rights. Plus he told me that some parts of the contract aren't detailed enough and are a bit vague/not really precise, such as the income distribution, what expenses are deduced from JYJ's pay, the working hours etc. (and I can affirm that my brother is not biased since he didn't even know TVXQ before and "doesn't give a fuck about my asian boysbands" <--- his own words XD).
Anyways, it seems obvious to me that in all this mess nobody is entirely innocent, JYJ aren't, SM isn't and even HoMin aren't.
Ok so it looks like I can't edit my post D: I made a mistake on my previous comment, I meant 62.5% divided by 3 = 20.8 (not 12.5 XD) or something and since you said their families invested too (and based on the link you posted about the DA's investigation wich says that "JYJ AND their families own 62.5% of the company) each member alone doesn't own 62.5% of the company, it's the 3 members + their families, which is quite different.
ReplyDelete@ kokoromiya7
ReplyDeleteNo, we don't know exactly how much each member owns, but that still doesn't change the fact that the CJS & their families own 62.5%. I guess you are trying to argue that CJS is not involved in the business because their families own the shares, which in itself is a pretty ridiculous argument, but the Korean DA dropped the lawsuit filed by Wishop Plus against SM stating that SM has sufficient reason to believe CJS's involvement in the business, so that should be enough to prove that CJS is big part of it.
@ kokoromiya7
ReplyDeleteI just found your first comment in the spam folder, and just recovered it.
Anyways, I even said in my posts that there are some clauses that may be unfair, so I've basically agreed with your brother, so I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
I can see that you are resisting blaming CJS for this whole thing, and really trying to find some fault in SM and HoMin, but you will see that this mess is pretty one sided affair as I post more.
BTW, what's HoMin's fault in this?
@ kokoromiya7
ReplyDeleteMy brother is a lawyer too :D
He told me the following: '' If they signed on the contract with their patents approval it means that they agree and approve on all the things that have mentioned and stated.'' He said that the company's contract is reasonable when it comes to music/entertainment industry and since the company DISCUSSED and EXPLAINED the contract to the parents and the members INDIVIDUALLY it means the company is following a clear policy when it comes to legal stuff. Furthermore, the company explained to the members and their parents the need to extend their contract to 13 years to make TVXQ known globally. All the members and their parents agreed and that's why they approved on extending the contract.
The point here is not whether SM is fair or unfair, the point is that THE MEMBERS AND THEIR PARENTS were given a detailed explanation and were given time to think about the contract. They were not forced by SM. That's why SM record every meeting they make with the members or their parents.
Hi to Precious and everyone. I don't know if anyone read this (the post was so long ago). Anw, I've been a silent reader and I was reading back all posts and comments. They give me headaches, so much to process. This topic about Crebeau product and sheep placenta is particularly interest me more than anything, LOL (maybe just the science in me).Btw, is there anyone from the science/research field reading this blog? I want to know your opinion..What I'm going to write is based on my opinion and understanding, so please don't use harsh words. I believe we are wiser and more intelligent than that.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I gather on web and note that it is stated as in general, I didn't read journals (too lazy to do so). I didn't know before but apparently, sheep placenta is quite common in health/skin product. . Frankly I don't find anything wrong using sheep placenta. There are a lot more unimaginable 'thing' that is being used in our daily products.
So, this is my scientist/researcher talking (hoping I can be one in the future).
At first I don't know why they use sheep placenta. Why sheep? Not other animal. SO I read that because sheep has high immune systems and their stem cells have no antigens. Wow, if that's true, I can see reason. The cells have no resistant towards human cells so it is easier to stimulate cells activity. This is truly a finding! And to get this finding I don't know how much time, money and brain to put together, and how many sheeps are used. However, I hope that they follow the guideline for using animal in research (this is one of the most important part in our Bio-mediacal Ethics). I think people believe that to get the sheep placenta, lots of sheeps are used. In early research that's probably true, but now with the advance of tech, actually, not many placenta are needed. They actually use the cells from the placenta, which they culture to increase productivity. Not cheaper, but more efficient. Of course the placenta needs to be standardized, everything during the gestation period need to be taken care of and optimization during cell culture, etc. Truthfully, I've never heard of Creabeau and sheep placenta until CJS involved in the business. So I guess, I gain new information from this.
So when the president say 10 years of hard work, I believe that they do their own research, and it's quite a lengthy research, maybe 5-6 yrs given it is a product, not drug/food. How long was this Crebeau in the market? (note that every country has different length on how long reserach shoulbe conduct and tests to be verified for product release). Lol, I seem agree with Crebeau, right? I agree on the product IF the placenta used are from the afterbirth. Again, each country have different guideline concerning productivity, but I found it really distrubing IF it's true that a sheep is killed in it's 3 month's gestation period. A sheep gives birth after 5-6 months, so it means that the fetus is 'killed' halfway before it fully developes. That's truly disturbing for me.
cont..
ReplyDeleteNow, IF the claims of placenta from 3 months pregnant sheep has the highest nutrient is true, how do they know? Is it from other research or the Crebeau company own research team? I don't know how extensive such research are. You can't know this placenta has highest nutrient by guessing. That's why research is needed. You don't know the dose for paracetamol by guessing. They are experimented, tested long before they are released. Same with the placenta. Say the gestation period is 6 months, to 'know' the nutrient content, it means at least at every month, the placenta is 'taken'. And it's not like 5-10 tests, you need a certain amount of tests for it to be considered valid. That's for every month. What if every 2 weeks, or a week, or 5,3,1 day that the test is conducted, X times tests to be valid (that is to optimize everything from animal care to labwork). Lol, I don't know how much animal are needed if such extensive result is done. Again, this is a product, not a drug, so certain criteria is probably ignored. And again, with cell culture, the no of animals used probably are much more reduced, since optimization is largely on labwork. Hence I question why 3 months preganant sheep IF it's true. can't we optimize in lab since it is the cells that are used? Maybe someone with research/animal/product background share their opinion?
Lol, I seem to ramble so much and I don't know if anyone read/ understand this. And it's not even related to the post much. What I can say is I truly don't understand what this Kang Seok Won said, “More than 10 years of hard work to build this company are being rattled because of TVXQ’s small investment.”
Small investment? Do you really think 62.5% is small investment? What is large investment then? IF the product is good (meaning not using 3 months placenta), I actually believe it is such a waste. Imagine those who do research on the product (since it's more related to my field)..huhu..5-6 yrs of research is..I can't even think myself. The point is, if you truly care about this Crebeau product, can't you use a better promotion? And blaming Beijing Representation Corporation? Well, they are your branch. Don't tell me your managemnet is so shallow and you don't even select only QUALIFIED people (with integrity) to manage your branch? Part of it is your fault too then.
And about the price? I'm not surprised if it's expensive. The cell culture/labwork is expensive, especially the reagent. That's why manufacturer company is rich, since they provide the reagent.
This comment has been removed by the author.
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